canon 10005 or lumix g1

[knightmaric]

Hi all. I have a choice of the above cameras and I'm stuck between the two of them.
Many good things about both but I just can't make up my mind. I will be buying one of them tomorrow but just want opinions.
I'm not a photographer but will be getting into it.

I've fallen in love with both cameras for different reasons and no others around that price brakcet have made me go wow.
So that's why its between these 2.

So opinions please!
And no flaming/ fanboyism.

Knight.

Edit:
Sorry, title is supposed to say canon 1000D lol

[Kenman]

My personal choice the Panasonic G1, not because it is the best, they are both good, but I just like the size and feel in my hands, and cash flow permitting, will hopefully be my next camera.
Now the Canon has a much larger lens selection available, and probably cheaper. So I would say, if you are intending to purchase many additional lenses, then go for the Canon. But if you will be happy with maybe the kit lens, plus one other, then the G1.
Results from either are good enough for most amateur users.
There are, as you are probably aware, a few other factors that could help you decide.
The Canon would have the edge for sports photography, by reason of having an optical viewfinder, whereas the G1 is an electronic device, which has a slight lag, in most situations not much trouble, but for sports action photography can be a problem. My answer to that is I use a RDS. (Red Dot Sight) Mounted in the Flashgun socket, this takes a little practice, but one can soon adapt to it.
I know, as I use one with my present camera.
I see WarehouseExpress has just lowered their G1 price, not a lot, but in the right direction.

[knightmaric]

Thank you for the opinion =] I held them both earlier and both feel great! The g1 is very light. They both hold so well.
I like the screen on the g1. It will make pictures easier for me.

I will be getting into car photography. But mostly still photos instead of moving objects.
How well would you say the g1 would cope with taking shots of someone jumping in the air?

I'm off on holiday soon and that's one of the reasons for the camera but I will be using it a fair bit.
Not sure if I will buy other lenses as they are rather expensive. But I may a few years down the line.

I think I'll be buying one tomorrow. Well I hope.
The g1 is tempting me a lot =]

Knight.

[knightmaric]

Just wondering if someone can help me with this.

I like to play with things, so I want to play with some photos.
I've seen photos of carparks or roads with cars stuck in place but the light streams from passing vehicles cutting through the image.

Example being this http://media.photobucket.com/image/car%20photography/Seethegrim2/Carz/RUJI%20Photos/Untitled-9.jpg
and this more so http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3729589389_578c93571f.jpg

I just wanted to know if I could do this with the Lumix G1?
I know the canon can do this with a bit of tweaking.
i know this is mainly from playing with shutter speeds is it not?

I'm really stuck for choice lol

[Vigoro]

Shutter speed and that image looks shopped aswell so got to fiddle about in photoshop with it ;)

[knightmaric]

Well if possible i'd like to get those types of pictures without photoshop as I suck in it lol

[Vigoro]

Well you wont get too far off it if you really know what you are doing. however good way to practice the long exposure shots with the camera is to get someone to wave a light around and see what happens :p


And what you on about anyone can use photoshop ;)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/Vigoro/DSC01641.jpg

Theres one i did earlier \o/

[knightmaric]

Just wondering but what camera did you use for that?

That's a rather nice pic actually =P

I have to find a bank statement before I can get the camera xD
So i'm franticly searching lol

[Vigoro]

Used a sony DSC-H50

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/dsc-h-series/dsc-h50

I think they are around £230 for the camera by itself, but then of course you do get some offers at certain places for a carry bag and memory stick :)

Oh and for reference this is the original

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/Vigoro/DSC01641-1.jpg

If you want to see any others i will happily upload what i have taken on it :)

[jaymyer79]

The streaming lights are from a slow shutter speed. If shooting at night, or to get that effect, you will need to use a tripod though.
It's definitely worth learning to use Photoshop, or, Adobe Lightroom is a great program and a lot easier to use.

Only just getting into photography myself and I've had my eye on the Canon 1000d...looks impressive.

Let us know what you get buddy and all the best with your new hobby :-)

[knightmaric]

Hmm I did reply to this this morning but it's not gone through O.o

Well I still need to get a bank statement so I have a few more days to decide.
But i'm really starting to like the G1 xD

I will be buying a tripod =]
Maybe not right now but I will be getting one.

[Kenman]

Those car pics have probably be made using a Bulb exposure. A camera with this option allows user timed exposure as the shutter opens on the first press of shutter button, remains open until a second press. Best operated using a remote release, and a very sturdy tripod.
I am not sure if either of your camera choices have this option. So check out what is the slowest (Longest) exposure available. I think you would need at least something in the 8 seconds region, more if possible.
RE Photoshop, very good, I don't use it, too expensive for me. There are several good alternatives.
My favourite, for speed and user friendlyness is Helicon Filter, though I also have ACDSee Pro., and Artizen HDR, the last one is very good for HDR.

Update:
Just checked specs of 1000D and G1. Both have the Bulb option, and are suitable for time exposures. I wasn't aware of this, hadn't thought of it till your OP. So my choice of next camera is 100% G1. Thanks! :drink:

[Peeej]

A 2-3 second shutter on a 200ISO would be more than fast enough, assuming that whatever is making the streaks is travelling at a resonable speed.

Any Camera, whether it be comapct or DSLR, can take this sort of photos if it has manual settings where you can adjust the shutter speed.

To get the most out of a DSLR you need to have an understanding of Depth of Field (apperture)/ISO (Film speed) and shutter speed, otherwise your wasting your money buying one.

I did a short course when I bought mine and now I at least understand how to use most of the manual settings on it.

[knightmaric]

I will be taking part time classes in the evening.
I also have quite a few friends who are either photographers or have a very good understanding of photography.
So at least I know i'm not jumping the gun and wasting my money =]

Can't wait til work finishes then I can get touchy feely with the G1 again =p

I think I read that the shutter on the G1 can stay open for 60 seconds or something.

Jw but does anybody know the exact name of those passing light shots I mentioned?
Or are they called passing light shots?
lol

[Janesy B]

Have you bought a camera yet? If you haven't, buy the Canon.

[codemonkey]

Have to say my vote goes with the Canon 1000D as well... but I am biased in that I've only recently bought a Canon 450D.

But to back up my argument, the 1000D is a full DSLR, the G1 is not. The G1 lacks the mirror box of an SLR and has an electronic viewfinder rather than an optical one. So if your actually interested in photography as a hobby I'd go with the Canon

[knightmaric]

Rightio both =]

I'm stuck.
Honestly I really am.
There are many reasons I like each camera.

Is there anything really wrong with having an electronic viewfinder rather than an optical?

[codemonkey]

Rightio both =]

I'm stuck.
Honestly I really am.
There are many reasons I like each camera.

Is there anything really wrong with having an electronic viewfinder rather than an optical?

Not hugely. The following links gives a list of pros and cons

http://www.brighthub.com/multimedia/photography/articles/18959.aspx

But for a photography purists it's optical all the way. And the higher end EOS like the 400D and above gives a live view option as well so you can have the best of both worlds.

The biggest con to the electronic viewfinder is the lag you can get when pressing the button to take a picture. This can be a real pain when trying to get THAT shot. Whereas the optical viewfinder will have no lag at all. If your intending to take lots of pictures and become seriosu about photography go for the full DSLR. Maybe worth having a look at some of Nikon's offerings as they have quite the rabid following (almost as much as Canon) :)

[knightmaric]

I'm assuming live view is seeing on the LCD what you can in the viewfinder?
If the 1000D doesn't have that then I can't see me getting it lol
I know i'm a pain lol
Or am I completely wrong?

Hmm the 450D is the same price range as the G1....
God dammit now i'm stupidly confused :: sighs ::

I really am going to have to play with each of them to find which is perfect for me.

Edit:

Including a bag and mem card the 450d is out of my price by a fair bit.
still between the g1 and 1000D

[Vigoro]

If you want to use a screen to take photos and not a viewfinder, i think a compact may be better for you ;)

[Janesy B]

Why not go for a second hand Canon 350D for £250 which leaves plenty of money for lenses and filters and other goodies. You'll also be able to use everything when you upgrade to a better/newer Canon DSLR. I really really wouldn't spend that much on something that wasn't Nikon or Canon. Once you get used to a view finder, you won't care about the LCD.

[knightmaric]

Oh I will be using the viewfinder a lot!
But I like the use of a screen too =]

[Sublios_Pixelus]

I'm assuming live view is seeing on the LCD what you can in the viewfinder?
If the 1000D doesn't have that then I can't see me getting it lol
I know i'm a pain lol
Or am I completely wrong?


if you want that then the G1 is the only choice, although the 1000D has live view it's not great for normal photography as it is slow and unreliable where as the G1 is like a compact camera only with dslr performance

[Kenman]

Well Ive only been using 35mm Cameras, and 5x4s, for around 55 years, so what do I know? :wink: But the pros and cons with cameras, are really more related to the user.
I've used too many types of VF to remember, and I'm quite happy to adapt to the new technology.

I think you may get some extra help, by taking a look at the various forums on www.dpreview.com. There are forums for most makes, and a lot of very useful help and advice can be had.

[knightmaric]

I've read a lot of reviews on both cameras and i've become a slight bit wiser =]
Not a lot, but a bit hehe

Well if my bank statement comes through today you will all be finding out what I have got later tonight =P
And if it takes a few days for the statement to come through you'll find out then.
I think i'm pretty set on which one i'm getting ;]

[Janesy B]

Make sure you're set on the Canon. You will regret buying the Lumix.

Buying a Canon 350D with a Standard Lens kit is really your best option in this case.

[PeteA]

the 1000D has quite poor build quality as does the Lumix. I'd say get something like the 450D or the 350D if your happy to go second hand.

[Sublios_Pixelus]

that's odd as my 1000d seems quite well built :tongue:

[knightmaric]

And that seems odd as my new Lumix G1 seems quite well built =P
Really need to read up on this thing hehehe

[PeteA]

Should have added, compared to the higher canon makes. Just seems very plastic'e to me. I suppose that's about right for the price of the cameras.

I considered both as a lightweight.

[jaymyer79]

You went for the G1 then, buddy. Hope it serves you well and be sure to share your photo's :-)

[PeteA]

You'll have to show us some photo's

Really at the end of the day, it's the photographer not the camera :)

[Kenman]

Well done, now RTFM :wink: And look after your new Camera, and it will look after you. As the last poster said, it is the user, not the camera that takes the pictures.
The camera is a tool, and if it feels comfortable to use, then you should soon learn how to get the best from it.
Look forward to seeing some of your results in the future. I'm Mr.:D now with envy. I hope to have one myself, as, and when cash allows.

[knightmaric]

Thanks everyone =D
The camera is a bit fiddly.
I will be going mad and will RTFM later when I get home from work =P
Just trying to figure out something with manual focusing atm.
When I zoom in with the lens then manual focus, it then zooms in even further.
Something i'm def going to have to read about =P

I've also been offered a Nikon with 2 lenses for £200.
Not sure on model yet, will find out later.
I might be getting this aswell.
There's a reason to it =P
It's the GF's birthday soon.
So because i'm nice i'm going to let her choose whatever camera out of the two she wants lol

What programme can I get to convert RAW files to jpeg?
Or would that be on the software on the disc I got for my new camera?

I will be taking evening classes soon so I can get used to the camera and make full use of it =]
I won't let any of you down :D

Edit:
9. Other Convenient Features
When using the G1 in manual focus mode, the frame will automatically enlarge by around 5x or 10x(magnification can be altered by the front dial) for easy viewing in the Live View Finder or high-resolution LCD with Manual Assist function. This lets the user frame the shot with greater ease and accuracy. The movable guide lines make it easy to check the horizontal and vertical positioning of the subject and scene, no matter how the shot is being composed.

This is what I mean =P
It's a little tricky to get used to but is rather handy.
Just makes it slightly awkward I suppose if you want a close up shot of an eye etc and manual focus lol

Oh well i'm up for a challenge =D

[PeteA]

Camera's come with raw conversion software, although Photoshop is brilliant for editing raws and post processing of images

Talking of close up of eyes, and other things, I use these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/67mm-MACRO-CLOSE-UP-Lens-4-Filter-Kit-Set-1-2-4-10-NEW_W0QQitemZ380157093134QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Cam erasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraLensesFilters_JN ?hash=item588320e50e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)


With those close up rings, you have very little depth of field. A bit like using a prime lens

[knightmaric]

Those rings are brilliant for taking amazingly close up shots then like resistors on motherboards etc then?
I'll have a look at the macro lenses for the G1 as they're micro 4/3's.
They're about the same price I think so that's not so bad.

Just thought i'd ask.
But if I wanted to take a close up shot with my current 14-45mm lense then should I keep things set to auto until I learn how to do things properly?

[PeteA]

Those rings are brilliant for taking amazingly close up shots then like resistors on motherboards etc then?
Yeah, or eyes, flowers, fabric, butterflies etc.



Just thought i'd ask.
But if I wanted to take a close up shot with my current 14-45mm lense then should I keep things set to auto until I learn how to do things properly?

You won't be able to get that close with your lens with out those rings or a proper macro lens.

Those rings don't actually zoom in, what they do is reduce your focal distance.

The 14-45mm lens has a minimum focal distance of 30cm. So for a x10 macro lens your focal distance should be 3cm. I will warn you though, on a zoom lens you wont be able to zoom much as then you wont be able to focus. It's best just to leave it at 14mm, as that's the best aperture of the lens anyway.

[knightmaric]

Thanks PeteA =]

I can see me asking a lot of different questions to be honest.
Like the different shooting modes of the camera, lense timing, apeture etc lol
I would RTFM but alas I don't have it on me =[

I'll take some pictures in work today and see how they come out so I can show you guys =]

[PeteA]

http://www.astropix.com/SPORTSPIX/NSC/TIPS06.HTM
The above link is a sports tutorial however the page I've linked to you is the basics.

The whole tutorial focuses on sports however generally can over any moving target and a lot about composition.

http://www.dptutorial.com/photography-tips-for-beginners
Also some very good advice.

[knightmaric]

Thanks PeteA.

I'll have a look at those later on =]

I'm a bit gutted as I may be taking the G1 back.
I don't particularly want to, but certain people are making me change my mind constantly *no one on this forum might I add lol*
And I don't think I can keep the camera secretly and get the D50 too.

Aah I hate having to please more than one person at the same time.
Wish people would just let me have my own way for once >_<

[PeteA]

Fact of life / having an other half.

D50 is a good camera. I've used Nikon before don't have one my self but they have a good range of Lenses.

Canon do have a better range of lenses. Mainly at the higher end of lenses.

[knightmaric]

For the price the Nikon is great, especially with the lens it comes with =]
But it looks.... rather big lol
I like the G1 in my hands.

Meh I guess i'm gonna have to face the music either way lol
Gotta tell the girlfriend now...
I can see this turning into a bloodbath war between her and her dad xD

[Sublios_Pixelus]

the G1 will be better than the D50 tbh so I'd keep that and ditch the D50 if you have to lose 1, or you could grow some testicles and then use them to slap who ever is bugging you about it :D

what lenses does the D50 have with it?

[knightmaric]

The D50 has a umm....... off the top of my head i'm thinking it's an 18-70mm?
I know it's 70mm then something smaller lol

Now I would pull my trousers up and say "no i'm keeping it" BUT
The person who i'd be saying it to is my gf's dad and since he's more or less my boss, i'd rather not do anything to wind him up or hurt his feelings lol
He did pull some strings to get the Nikon so i'd feel VERY rude if I didn't take the offer up.
I'll see if I can sway him tbh because I really don't want to sacrifice either camera lol

Wow I never ever knew that choosing a camera that was right for me was this hard =P

[Kenman]

That is one difficult situation, glad I never fell for my bosses daughter. ;) This is stage in which I can give you no help or advice. Except Nikons are as good as any other camera, though probably larger than the G1. I've owned most makes over the years, and in all honesty can say none were bad, though one outshone most others, mainly due to the glass, hence my weakness for the G1. That was the first Leica 35mm SLR Model made, the lenses were unbelievable, in performance, and :( price! :wink:

[Lambda]

The D50 has a umm....... off the top of my head i'm thinking it's an 18-70mm?
I know it's 70mm then something smaller lol

Now I would pull my trousers up and say "no i'm keeping it" BUT
The person who i'd be saying it to is my gf's dad and since he's more or less my boss, i'd rather not do anything to wind him up or hurt his feelings lol
He did pull some strings to get the Nikon so i'd feel VERY rude if I didn't take the offer up.
I'll see if I can sway him tbh because I really don't want to sacrifice either camera lol

Wow I never ever knew that choosing a camera that was right for me was this hard =P

The G1 is a nice camera, but you've bought into an immature market with the micro 4/3 cameras, if anything I'd consider one as a secondary camera for an experienced DSLR user who needs convenience but won't use a P&S.

You'd be much better off if this is your first foray into DSLRs to buy a Nikon or Canon, as a DSLR is a system, consisting of many many different parts, not least the body and the lens, and Nikon & Canon's ranges are about the best you'll get. A D50 and a lens will get you started, then you can buy other accessories and lenses as you improve, then upgrade the body when you feel you need more control or want to make larger prints.