Windows Vista OEM Question

[kl2004]

Hi, I was wondering if someone could help clarify the OEM front:

for example could I buy the OEM Vista Premium on its own and start using it without on my existing hardware (assuming it will run)

or

as I intend on building a new system from scratch, what hardware would I need to buy from Novatech (if I did not buy all components from them) to validate legally the OEM version? If anyone can shed any light on this OEM confusion I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks

[Taxation]

if you buy a copy of vista, you can install it on the hardware you have currently got
or a newer machine if you wanted

[DarrenT]

You wouldn't be able to buy an OEM copy of windows without also buying a qualifying piece of hardware (Motherboard, HDD, etc) or a new PC.

Also, an OEM operating system is linked to a single machine. You cannot install standard OEM software on more than one machine or hardware setup or transfer it if you have problems with the first machine. For instance, if you did buy it and install it on your existing system, you would have to buy another copy if you bought a new PC in the future, or upgraded your motherboard, even if the first PC was destroyed.

[Danno]

more information on how the activation works can be found here.


Windows Product Activation (WPA)
on Windows XP
Version 3.2 — Last Updated Novemnber 15, 2005
Hold mouse here for list of most recent changes.

by Alex Nichol, MS-MVP
© 2001-2005 by Author, All Rights Reserved

One new feature in Windows XP that has caused great concern is Windows Product Activation (WPA). There are a great many rumors, and much misinformation, from which you might be led to think that WPA is going to call Microsoft every day and say just what you are doing with your computer; that, if you make any changes at all to your computer hardware, the machine will be instantly disabled; and that WPA is a sneaky way for Microsoft to store personal information about you or your computer, or to begin charging you a monthly fee for your continued use of Windows XP. In fact, all of these rumors are false. WPA is a fairly easy-going check when Windows boots, confirming that it is still installed on the same computer as last time it checked. That’s all. But the rampant misinformation is understandable, because it is hard for the general consumer to find a simple yet comprehensive explanation of just what WPA is. This page tries to fill that gap by explaining WPA in a straightforward, detailed way — and to show that it will be a lot less trouble to most people than many have feared.

What’s the idea of WPA?

The Microsoft License for use of Windows has always been limited to allowing installation on only a single machine (and that excludes having the same copy installed on a laptop as well as a desktop machine: only MS Office is licensed for the combination). Microsoft believes that this has been subject to much casual abuse. WPA is a means of ensuring that a single copy is not installed on more than a single machine.

So, within the first 30 days after installing Windows XP, you must get the system ‘activated’ if you are to be able to go on using it. This involves the computer dialing in and giving some information about the hardware on which Windows is installed, receiving in return a release code which will be recorded on the system. More is said below about OEM copies provided preinstalled on a new computer

At subsequent boots, Windows checks to see that it is still running on hardware that it can recognise as being the same. If it does not match well enough, you will be unable to do more than backup files until you call Microsoft to explain — for example, that the old machine broke down and had to be rebuilt — and get a new release code.

What hardware gets checked?

The WPA system checks ten categories of hardware:

1. Display Adapter
2. SCSI Adapter
3. IDE Adapter (effectively the motherboard)
4. Network Adapter (NIC) and its MAC Address
5. RAM Amount Range (i.e., 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc.)
6. Processor Type
7. Processor Serial Number
8. Hard Drive Device
9. Hard Drive Volume Serial Number (VSN)
10. CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM

It then calculates and records a number based on the first device of each type that was found during setup, and stores this number on your hard drive. Initially, this is sent to Microsoft in an automatic dial-up, together with the Product ID number derived from the 25-character unique Product Key used in setting up Windows.

If Service Pack 1 has been installed, the entire Product Key is also transmitted: This can then be checked against a list of known pirated keys

The hardware is checked each time Windows boots, to ensure that it is still on the same machine. Also, if you subsequently perform a complete format and reinstall of Windows, Microsoft’s activation center will have to be contacted again because the information held on the machine itself (the number previously written to your hard drive) will have been wiped out by reformatting the hard drive. If your hardware is substantially the same, this will be done by an automated call without your needing to talk to anyone.

What does ‘substantially the same’ mean? WPA asks for ‘votes’ from each of these ten categories: ‘Is the same device still around, or has there never been one?’ Seven Yes votes means all is well — and a NIC, present originally and not changed, counts for three yes votes! Minor cards, like sound cards, don’t come into the mix at all. If you keep the motherboard, with the same amount of RAM and processor, and an always present cheap NIC (available for $10 or less), you can change everything else as much as you like.

If you change the device in any category, you have lost that Yes vote — but will not lose it any more thereafter if you make changes in that category again. So, for example, you can install a new video display card every month for as long as you like.

Note that it appears that if you boot with a device disabled (disabled — not removed), the device is not found in the enumeration — so if, say, you disable a network connection which uses the NIC and then reboot, you may be missing its three votes and find that a new activation is needed. If you are doing such things, take the Hint 3 in What about formatting a hard disk? below, and restore the files concerned once the NIC is back in service.

What if I make too many changes?

If, on Windows startup, there are not the required seven Yes votes, the system will, in the original version of Windows XP, only boot to Safe Mode. You will be required to reactivate by a phone call to Microsoft. You will have to write down a 50-digit number, call into the activation center on a toll-free number that will be given to you, read and check back the number you recorded — and explain the circumstances. In exchange, you will be given a 42-digit number to type in. This will reactivate your copy of Windows.

This is made easier if Windows XP Service Pack 1 has been installed: The system will continue to boot normally for three days, during which time you will be able to contact the activation center via the net. If the extra changes have been removed, or if 120 days have passed since the original activation, you will be able to use the automatic process once more

What about formatting a hard disk?

Two things are recorded for disks: the number of the disk drive itself, and the Volume Serial Number (VSN) of the partition on it.

HINT No. 1: The VSN is part of the data in the partition’s first sector, so it is changed when you reformat the drive. It is worth getting the freeware utility Volume ID to restore the original VSN. Before you reformat, run VOL from a Command Prompt, note the VSN (e.g., 1F2E-3C4B) in the second line. Then, after the reformat and new Windows XP installation, defer the new activation until you have run Volume ID to restore the old VSN, and rebooted. This is not essential — but it saves one of the ‘Yes votes’ against any future hardware change. (If you don’t wish to run this utility, the next best way to obtain the same result would be to delete the old Win XP files from the hard drive before reinstalling, rather than actually reformatting.)

HINT No. 2: Another thing that changes the VSN is converting a FAT 32 partition to NTFS. So, if you upgrade a system using FAT 32 to Windows XP and intend to convert to NTFS, do the conversion before activating the system. Remember, you can wait a while: you have 30 days before you need to activate. The machine’s hardware at the time of the first activation is what counts. Or, if you have already activated, use Volume ID as described in Hint No. 1. If you are doing this after activation, also first back up the WPA.DBL and WPA.BAK files, as described in Hint No. 3 below, and, after completion of the conversion, restore these files and reboot again.

HINT No. 3: It is valuable to back up the two files WPA.DBL and WPA.BAK from the Windows\System32 folder.Then, should they get damaged, or should you do a ‘Repair’ reinstallation of Win XP, these files can be copied back to restore the prior activation status. However, this only works in those limited circumstances. The contents of these two files is matched to the specific Windows setup; therefore, contrary to what many journalists and members of the user community have written in recent months, restoring these files will not restore your activation status following a reformat and clean install.

The disk drive and partition recorded will be the ones that the system has found first when doing the initial activation: normally the one from which the system booted. So, if you change that disk and reinstall Windows to a new partition, you have lost two of the Yes votes. If, though, you add a new hard disk, copy the original partition onto it with an imaging program, and retain the original hard drive as a secondary data disk, it will still be found by a later check. This is because it searches for all disks, and the vote will be Yes in both categories if it finds the original one, with the partition not reformatted.

What about a swappable hard drive bay?

Provided the swappable hard drive bay is for secondary disks (used for data), and the boot disk with Windows is still present, the swappable disks do not enter into the WPA calculation.

Changing the motherboard

Installing a replacement motherboard will change the IDE controller, and usually will mean that you change to a new, faster, processor. If the processor is one with a serial number (Pentium III), then you lose a third vote — including when you change to a processor with no serial number, such as an Athlon. If you also add RAM, or if the motherboard is one with an on-board SCSI adapter, that makes four or five categories now voting No — you would need an unchanged NIC to avoid having to call in for reactivation. If the new motherboard also has inbuilt video (and possibly even a NIC of its own!), you run right out of Yes votes with this one hardware change.

Again, this doesn’t stop you from making such a hardware change, nor from using Windows XP thereafter. The phone-in reactivation option was created for just this type of situation. Also, this is an extreme example. Due to the onboard features of some motherboards, this one hardware change is equivalent to several changes at once.

Re-activation on a new setup after adding devices

If you add devices, as mentioned earlier in relation to hard disks, the check at boot up will still find the original device, even if it is now in a subsidiary postion (e.g., as a slave hard disk). But if you format and do a new setup, it will be the device that is now in ‘first place’ that goes into the hardware hash sent to Microsoft. This means that this hardware category no longer will match — and will be seen as voting ‘no.’ This means that you may find the automatic activation rejected, even though you have not recently made any changes. Therefore, from the point of view of WPA, it is best to make such hardware additions subsidiary ones. For example, if you add another CD drive, have it as the secondary slave, and, if need be, move the original one onto the primary channel.

There is a useful program XPInfo which will give you a simple picture of which categories are currently casting Yes votes at the boot-up check.

How long does this go on?

The license for a retail version of Windows XP is in perpetuity. You get to use Windows XP forever, if you choose.

But Microsoft recognises that machines do get upgraded. If, following the activation after setup, you do not need to contact the activation center for 120 days (any changes you make during this time being seen as acceptable when the system boots), then the sheet is swept clean and you can start again using the current hardware as the new baseline to make more changes.

If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the new machine — but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call and explain (unless, as was just mentioned, 120 days have passed since the activation was last performed).

Microsoft has said that if it ever becomes not worthwhile for them to keep this activation system going, they will take steps to allow users to disable it.

OEM versions

Restrictions of specific license types may limit the foregoing. OEM versions of Windows XP are licensed together with the hardware with which they are purchased, as an entity, and such a copy may not be moved to a different computer. Also, other specific license types (e.g., Academic licenses) are handled in different ways. These aren’t a WPA issue per se, but rather an issue of the license for that purchase, and therefore outside the scope of this discussion of WPA.

There are two versions of OEM Windows XP systems. One can be purchased separately, with qualifying subsidiary hardware, and installed with that hardware to an existing machine, to which it becomes bound. The software may be reinstalled and reactivated indefinitely as with a retail system as long as it is still on the original machine. It may not be transferred to a different computer. It is activated as described above, but if it were installed to hardware seen as not substantially the same, the activation would be refused as falling outside the license.

In the other OEM form, the system is provided pre-installed by a major supplier. Instead of activation, the system is ‘locked’ to the BIOS on the motherboard. The validity of this lock is checked at boot. As long as this is satisfied, other hardware may be changed freely, but any replacement motherboard must be for a compatible one supplied by the original maker.

If a BIOS-locked system is installed to a board where the lock fails, it enters a normal Activation process at startup. However, beginning 1 March 2005, the Product Key supplied on a label by the computer manufacturer, and used for the initial intallation, will not be accepted for activation. A new copy of Windows XP, with a license allowing installation on a different machine, will be needed. This means that any replacement motherboard (or upgrade to its BIOS) must be supplied by the original maker, who will ensure the lock is maintained.

Installation of Service Packs 1 & 2

Windows XP Service Pack 1 (“SP1”) introduces some further obstacles to systems that appear to have been pirated: It will not install at all on systems which appear to have used one of two well established “pirate” Product Keys, and a wider range of pirated and cracked keys will result in no access being allowed to Windows Update. These limitations are taken further with Service Pack 2

Installation of SP1 also will detect and fix a number of “cracks” used by pirates to circumvent the need to activate. Such systems will then need to be activated after SP1 is installed. However, regular, legitimate, installations of Windows XP will not need to be reactivated after simply because of installing SP1.

For more detailed discussion of the changes and their implications, see Microsoft’s article Service Pack 1 Changes to Product Activation.

Some things WPA does not do

* WPA does not send any personal information at all about you to Microsoft. There is still an option to register the product with Microsoft, but that is separate and entirely voluntary.
* If you have to phone in yourself to carry out an activation or reactivation, you are not required to give any identifying personal information.
* WPA does not ‘phone in’ every day to check. The check that the system is not significantly different is done by Windows itself at boot. If the hardware is not acceptable (i.e., you don’t get your seven Yes votes), you have to initiate the telephone call yourself in order to reactivate. Windows itself never calls Microsoft except when you specifically tell it to do so for an online activation.
* WPA does not provide a means for Microsoft to turn off your machine or damage your data. (Nor do they even have access to your data.) If the system is requiring you to phone in, you will still be able to boot to Safe Mode and back up your data.
* WPA is not a “lease” system requiring more payments after two years or any other period. You may use the product as licensed in perpetuity.


taken form http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.php

[deathhaggis]

I'd still be tempted by the OEM version even though it might not be usable if your motherboard fails. Vista OEM Ultimate is only £130 whereas the full version is £370.
I'm still really pissed off that the price in dollars $400 for Vista Ultimate [boxed] has been directly translated into pounds. Rip-Off Britain indeed :evil:

[kl2004]

You wouldn't be able to buy an OEM copy of windows without also buying a qualifying piece of hardware (Motherboard, HDD, etc) or a new PC.

Also, an OEM operating system is linked to a single machine. You cannot install standard OEM software on more than one machine or hardware setup or transfer it if you have problems with the first machine. For instance, if you did buy it and install it on your existing system, you would have to buy another copy if you bought a new PC in the future, or upgraded your motherboard, even if the first PC was destroyed.

Thanks for this, I appreciate your response, I am looking to build a new system, what do Microsoft actually want in the way of evidence that I bought new hardware, even though I will be as I am building from scratch I am just curious how they know? or is it when I register they take the motherboard details held within the bios like the serial etc?

[deathhaggis]

AFAIK there's no specific hardware you need to buy for the OEM version. It's just a case of loading it onto your new PC. Then the software will generate a code and sent that off too MS to signify that the OEM copy you bought is now link to the specific hardware in your PC and cant be installed onto a different computer. The only problem the OEM version might cause is if your PC breaks and you have to buy a different motherboard,etc as windows may see this as an attempt to install the software onto a different PC.

[kl2004]

AFAIK there's no specific hardware you need to buy for the OEM version. It's just a case of loading it onto your new PC. Then the software will generate a code and sent that off too MS to signify that the OEM copy you bought is now link to the specific hardware in your PC and cant be installed onto a different computer. The only problem the OEM version might cause is if your PC breaks and you have to buy a different motherboard,etc as windows may see this as an attempt to install the software onto a different PC.

Thanks, I appreciate you clearing this up, its certainly a grey area and I think its worth buying the OEM version and risking any future hardware failures.

Again appreciated all your help.

[Ben]

From what I have found. The OEM version of Vista can only be transferred once.

i.e You install in on machine 1. it can then be transferred one other that you upgrade it to. i.e deleteing it off of the 1st and installing on a second. Or 1 major hardware upgrade. I would imagine this would be a Motherboard and or CPU upgrade.

Some infoz here.

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/420

http://apcmag.com/node/4347

[deathhaggis]

I'd tend to agree with going for the OEM version even if the worst comes to the worst and you have to buy another copy if you upgrade your PC or it breaks in a couple of years time. The retail version's are so over priced that you could buy nearly 3 OEM copies for the cost of one retail version!

I cant understand why Microsoft are charging so much over the odds for the retail versions. Especially given how much they're ripping us off compared to what they pay in the states. I guess M$ has to make back the money for all of those European anti-trust fines somehow though :evil:

[kl2004]

I'd tend to agree with going for the OEM version even if the worst comes to the worst and you have to buy another copy if you upgrade your PC or it breaks in a couple of years time. The retail version's are so over priced that you could buy nearly 3 OEM copies for the cost of one retail version!

I cant understand why Microsoft are charging so much over the odds for the retail versions. Especially given how much they're ripping us off compared to what they pay in the states. I guess M$ has to make back the money for all of those European anti-trust fines somehow though :evil:

I agree, it does suck, the only plus side for the retail version is it has the 32bit and 64bit dvd's meaning I could change to 64bit in a year or so if the 64bit drivers have caught up. Its a minefield, this said I am going to go for the OEM version when I build a new system...

Anyone think the OEM price will change in the next couple of months?

[Taxation]

probably go down a few quid, but thats about it

[Nox]

i think the number of times i disable/enable stuff in the bios and accidently boot up with both nics on after a failed overclock would have me phone-reactivating every 30 mins...

Nox

[David T]

When we had MS in for our Vista training I asked them about the changing of hardware causing deactivation and they advised me that, as in XP, you could call them if Vista did not reactivate and as long as you have a valid reason they would reactivate Vista. They are aware that sometimes motherboards and other components fail. Of course I don't think any of us have actually tested this theory yet so we just don't know how it will respond.

In regards to how you purchase OEM, it does have to be purchased with hardware.

[Nox]

Qualifying hardware at that.

Nox

[Data0002]

What type of hardware do we have to buy

[Kevin Street]

There is one basic difference between OEM and retail, which people have already pointed out:

On retail, you may transfer your license as many times as you wish. You may upgrade until your heart's content, and still legally re-active the software. The only thing you can't do, is have the software installed on two computers simultaneously.

With OEM, this is quite different. Once you have installed it, it may not be transferred, even if the computer it is on is destroyed, or otherwise un-usable. You may upgrade anything in the PC EXCEPT the motherboard, and you can legally re-activate. You can do this until your heart's content. The only circumstance that you may change the motherboard (from a legal point of view), is if it fails within warrenty. The company who make your motherboard must then send you either the same motherboard, or one that is as close to the original as possible. If this is the case, it can legally be re-activated. If you change the motherboard with intent of upgrade, your OEM license is illigal.

And that's about it. I say "legally re-activated" because you will be able to just call Microsoft and tell them that you changed the motherboard on warrenty, but it will officially be illigal. Whether that bothers you is your own decision. :wink:

[Data0002]

What i mean can't i just buy the cheapest bit of hardware to qualify for oem.

[teknokid]

you don't have to buy any hardware? :S atleast i don't think so...

[Scallyofwag]

IF I walked into the Novatech store and asked for a copy of Vista Premium OEM would they just let me have it no questions asked

[Taxation]

it does say OEM here
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?MS-VHP32O (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MS-VHP32O)
also, some other shops sell OEM's because they are cheaper, and more popular because of the lower cost

[teknokid]

interesting, but id rather just pay £70 for home premium with no hassle.

[GN]

How come my post count goes down every time I come on here and that teknokids is going up even though he is flamming more then I???? lol :lol: :wink:

[Taxation]

can i have it in a nutshell plz, cant be bothered to read all that

[thomson1968]

Iam getting confused here a bit guys.

Ive just ordered a machine from novatech, i paid extra for the oem version of vista home premium to be installed.

What do i get for paying to get oem version of vista ???
do i get a disk so that if i want to completely reinstall windows i can whenever i want on that machine ??
Do i get the serial number needed for when reinstalling windows ??

And, my brother has just purchased a full very expensive version of vista home premium from local pc shop, does that mean that if i dont get a disk or serial number with my oem version then i would be able to use his if i wanted to ?? or if i got a serial number with my oem version but no disk, would i then be able to use his disk with my serial number ??

Hope someone can help answer all my questions, thank you.
(good forum by the way). :wink:

[Nox]

under xp, full and oem license would not work on each other - but you could recreate a disk making it think it was the other type but editing one of the files in the i386 directory.

Nox

[thomson1968]

under xp, full and oem license would not work on each other - but you could recreate a disk making it think it was the other type but editing one of the files in the i386 directory.

Nox

ehh ??? sorry mate for me being so dumb, but could you put what you say into dummy's terms, lol, i aint got much of a clue, if you have time could you answer all my question points, thanks my friend :D

cheers.

[Nox]

under xp, full and oem license would not work on each other - but you could recreate a disk making it think it was the other type but editing one of the files in the i386 directory.

Nox

ehh ??? sorry mate for me being so dumb, but could you put what you say into dummy's terms, lol, i aint got much of a clue, if you have time could you answer all my question points, thanks my friend :D

cheers.

I've never ordered a pre-built Novatech PC :) so I can't tell you 100% what you'll get. One of the Novatech reps should be able to answer that, but I would normally expect you to get some way of reinstalling vista, and a sticker on the case with your unique number.

and what i said above is no, a oem key wil not work when you try your brothers full version disk. Assuming they work the same way XP did, but you could change a file on the XP CD to make it think it was oem instead.

Nox

[thomson1968]

under xp, full and oem license would not work on each other - but you could recreate a disk making it think it was the other type but editing one of the files in the i386 directory.

Nox

ehh ??? sorry mate for me being so dumb, but could you put what you say into dummy's terms, lol, i aint got much of a clue, if you have time could you answer all my question points, thanks my friend :D

cheers.

I've never ordered a pre-built Novatech PC :) so I can't tell you 100% what you'll get. One of the Novatech reps should be able to answer that, but I would normally expect you to get some way of reinstalling vista, and a sticker on the case with your unique number.

and what i said above is no, a oem key wil not work when you try your brothers full version disk. Assuming they work the same way XP did, but you could change a file on the XP CD to make it think it was oem instead.

Nox
i understand what yer saying mate, how would i be able to change a file in the full vista home premium disk, could you explain how to do this mate ???

Also, ive been looking out for a generic oem version of vista home premium, but all i can see on the torrent sites etc is ones from other companies such as dell etc, they are obviously no good either as they will have all they'r shít on them too, i need a stand alone oem version i think, but iam fecked if i can find one anywhere :cry: (does anyone have one or know where i can get one etc, please pm me if ya can help).

I wonder, the novatech oem version, will that have stupid novatech splash screens when the pc boots up and shuts down etc ?? and will it contain other daft novatech software that i wont be able to remove ??
If so, is there any way to get rid of unwanted software and the novatech splash screens etc, surley there must be ??
And also, because its a novatech oem version, will it be fully loaded with all thats on a normal retail full version too ??

[Nox]

I don't have any instructions for vista, just XP :(

Nox

[thomson1968]

I don't have any instructions for vista, just XP :(

Nox
can someone else please offer help ?? thanks.

[Coops]

We don't currently deploy splash screens but i cannot say that will always stay that way.

We do not currently preload any other software apart from Vista Itself. We will be offering Office Trial in the near future.

There is no difference between OEM and Retail Version of a Microsoft OS Apart from licensing terms and Use of that License. The physical OS is the same. However Key codes are the exception. OEM keys only work on OEM Media. Retail keys only work on Retail.

If you order preinstalled version of our Vista Machine you get no media as standard. It is based on Hard Drive Recovery. You can if you wish as an optional extra purchase a recovery DVD. This of course will recovery the system but allows no control over the install. It recovers from DVD in the same way it would recovery from the HDD.
If you wish to have a bit more control or would prefer to have a proper Microsoft edge to edge hologram OEM disk. You can order the PC blank from us and then buy Microsoft OEM pack. However you would be required in this situation to install the OS and all the system drivers yourself.

[Nox]

I don't have any instructions for vista, just XP :(

Nox
can someone else please offer help ?? thanks.

and there is a feature of new tech - people don't know the ins and outs yet...

Nox