Help with installing Ubuntu (No CD drive)

[TheTranquilEye]

I'd like to install Ubuntu on an old Compaq N800V laptop. It has no optical drive and can only boot from floppy (has USB ports but not bootable).

I can connect the 3.5" HDD to my main PC via a USB cable and can therefore create partitions and copy any files across that I may need.

Is there a way to install? I'm a Windowz man myself, so although I could easily do this with XP, Ubuntu is a different story.

Any advice/links etc would be greatly appreciated!

TTE

[jonbanjo]

If USB boot is an option, with OpenSuse 11.2, I'd make myself a live USB stick and install from that. Steps to 1.1.1 is all that would be needed: http://en.opensuse.org/Live_USB_stick

I assume there is a similar procedure for Ubuntu.

[jonbanjo]

Some other ideas for Ubuntu here:

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/install-ubuntukubuntuedubuntuxubuntu-without-cdrom-drive.html

[TheTranquilEye]

If USB boot is an option

That's just the problem. If I could boot from USB I would've had this sorted in no time.

TTE

[mrgoose]

That's just the problem. If I could boot from USB I would've had this sorted in no time.

TTE
But you can boot from floppy, right? Then most distros have a way of installing from floppy. Not done it with Ubuntu but I have with Debian. In principle you need to get a basic bootable working system on your machine via floppy. The basic bootable system must include either a network connection or a CD ROM driver. Then you can install the rest of the system via Ethernet or CD ROM.

The Debian way:-
http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst

I know that part works because I've done it - several times in fact. The next bit I am less certain of, because I have not actually done it personally. However, it seems that once you have the machine booting from the HD with Debian, you can then upgrade to Ubuntu via Ethernet. The process is detailed here:-
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/WithFloppies

That said, if the machine is that old, I doubt that Ubuntu is your best distro anyway because the machine will not have the "grunt" to run it properly. At a guess, you have 40GB hard disk and 256MiB RAM, right? Runs XP OK but it's a bit sluggish sometimes? If that's the case, then I think you would be rather disappointed in the performance of Ubuntu, especially after all that hard work. I think something lighter such as Xubuntu, Damned Small Linux or my first choice for machines of that vintage, Barry Kauler's Puppy Linux would be much more appropriate:-
http://puppylinux.com/

How to install Puppy from floppy (though you need to wade through the posts that have missed the proverbial plot):-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=28509

How to install Puppy from a DOS prompt:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=1274

And the easiest way of all, IMHO (assuming you know how to make a floppy from a disk image) is to use WakePup:-
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/WakePUP

Finally, please don't be fooled into thinking Puppy is a Mickey Mouse distro, written and supported by crazy people. Actually, the second part of that statement does have an element of truth! lol. :) But be assured, Puppy IS a serious distro. Moreover, the community around Puppy is very supportive, enthusiastic and full of remarkably talented people, focussed on making old boxes run better than new. E.g.:-
A cybercafé for thirty quid? Farcical or feasible? (http://www.deoss.org/positive/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=43)

Sorry it was a long one. But I thought I better explain the options so you can make an informed choice, lol. :) HTH, best wishes G.

[TheTranquilEye]

That said, if the machine is that old, I doubt that Ubuntu is your best distro anyway because the machine will not have the "grunt" to run it properly. I think you would be very disappointed in the performance after all that hard work. I think something like Barry Kauler's Puppy would be much more appropriate.

Now that's useful information! Cheers MrGoose.

The Compaq has a 1.6GHZ P4 and 512mb RAM and has trouble running even an 'nLited' version of XP Pro. In my ignorance of all things Linux, I assumed that perhaps one or other distro would be lighter on resources.

I shall investigate Puppy tonight. It's actually the GF's laptop, so that name will no doubt appeal!!

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.

TTE

[Mr Grapes]

and i think Arch linux lite (uses LXDE as the desktop) is very resource friendly, without being featureless

either way, LXDE was developed so as to be lightweight, but not lacking.
someone else should probably confirm this...

[jonbanjo]

I think both XFCE and LXDE are lightweight and not lacking.

I used XFCE on OpenSuse much of the time with my old Dell Lattitude (?C800?) laptop. It struggled with Gnome and KDE.

[mrgoose]

Just in case the Eye is not aware. Unlike Windows, Linux supports a variety of different "desktop environments".

XCFE (http://www.xfce.org/) & LXDE (http://lxde.org/) are two of the lighter ones - in the sense that they use less system resources than heavyweights such as Gnome (http://www.gnome.org/) (default with Ubuntu) & KDE (http://www.kde.org/)(default with Kubuntu). And there are the oddballs, such as the beautiful but way-ahead-of-its-time Enlightenment (http://www.enlightenment.org/) window manager.

A brief comparison:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments

On Ubuntu (and most of the main distros for that matter) it is possible to install lots of desktop environments and then decide which one you want to use when you log in. I must confess this is a phase I went through a couple of years ago! lol.:rolleye:

Some people feel that the lightweight desktops are not as pretty and modern-looking as the heavyweights. However, they are often just as functional. In fact,their developers go to a great deal of trouble to use resources as efficiently as possible, whilst providing what is referred to in desktop design parlance as a "rich user experience".

Linux users generally have their own desktop preferences, and the best "light" desktop is often hotly debated. Personally I avoid such debates because IMHO it makes more sense arguing about whether red cars are better than blue ones! The important thing here, in my view, is that Linux is not Windows, and you do have a choice.

WRT Puppy, yes the ladies do seem to like it. Mrs Goose even had a Puppy background as her desktop wallpaper on her Kubuntu box! I did suggest she should go one better and create her own distro, calling it something like Little-Fluffy-Pink-Kittenix, but she muttered something in Hungarian and stomped off! lol! :D

Best wishes, G.

Edit:- a small selection of themes & walls for Puppy created by a Puppy enthusiast: http://puppy-look.tk/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3304/3328349373_cfb7fccf92.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10993240@N02/3404941390/in/set-72157617006253231/)

[TheTranquilEye]

Right, I'm back at home and ready to do battle with the Black Arts!

Could I, in theory, install a distro on the laptop drive via my desktop and a usb lead and then transplant it into the laptop?

TTE

[jonbanjo]

I'm not sure but I think the difficult bits would be setting up initrd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initrd and the bootloader, probably grub.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB

It's not something I've done.

[mrgoose]

I'm with Jon on this. It would certainly not be my first choice! IMHO the WakePup bootable floppy method would probably best serve your needs. It is really, really simple. It allows you to boot from a floppy, which then locates the Puppy CD ROM (even a USB one), or a USB stick so that you can then load it and if you wish, install it.

Best wishes, G.

Edit:- Wakepup bootable floppy, instructions & download:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=7979

Edit 2:- Obviously you also need a copy of the Puppy CD ROM in the USB CD ROM drive or on a USB stick when you boot:- http://www.puppylinux.org/main/index.php

[TheTranquilEye]

Guys

You've been most helpful but, alas, I'm failing.

I'm sure I'll work this out in the morning. I would very much like a glass of red wine right now!

I'll keep you posted.

Again, many, many thanks...

TTE

[mrgoose]

I find glass of plonk works wonders! Couple of pre-emptive tips you may wish to consider in the morning, if I may. Assuming you are using the WakePup boot floppy to start the machine...


If you are using a stick (rather than USB CD), make sure it's a small one (less than 2GB) and ideally FAT16 formatted. It is more likely to be recognised by the WakePup boot floppy.
The contents for the stick can be found directly at:-
http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-4.3.1/inside-iso/

Where are you stuck, anyway? Best wishes, G.

[TheTranquilEye]

Well, back again. Day off today and I was determined to crack this. But...

The fly in the ointment is that currently, the laptop has a 20GB drive with a fully working XP install. I have an 80GB and a 40GB drive kicking around spare. The Compaq will not recognise the 80GB even with the latest BIOS. However, the 40GB is a standard upgrade for the n800v (I've seen loads of this model for sale with 40GB drives) but the machine will not recognise it. To compound matters, even when I swap back to the original 20GB, it isn't recognised either, until I take it out and access it via USB cable on my desktop and re-fit.

So, I am loathe to trash the XP install and was hoping to install on the 40GB. I guess I could clone the drive in case it all goes pear-shaped but grrrrr...

FFS!

I thank all of you for the brilliant suggestions and help but this is one for the back, back, back burner.

Yours defeatedly,

TTE

[mrgoose]

I understand why you wouldn't want to trash a working system I wouldn't either! lol. But sooner or later the current HD will die and you will need to replace it, whatever OS you subsequently choose.

Interestingly, I have seen loads of 40GB n800v's around too. And the n800v seems a very highly regarded machine, particularly in terms of build quality:-
http://www.laptopreviews.org.uk/hp-laptops/hp-compaq-evo-notebook-n800v-p4-m-2ghz-15in-tft-notebook/

Seems the last BIOS update was 2005 and that was unrelated to HD compatibility anyway, according to the changelog:-
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodNameId=97150&prodSeriesId=96321&swLang=8&taskId=135&swEnvOID=1093

So I suspect that your machine actually will work with a 40 GB drive but you probably need to make some adjustments (or compromises or kludges) to overcome a silly BIOS quirk. Examples, (sheer guesswork of course) you may have a BIOS option to select PIO mode rather than DMA mode for disk access. Or there may be something to adjust PIO timings. Or you may need to reset the BIOS between disk changes because it remembers the previous disk's parameters. Whatever the cause, I'd bet a fiver it's a BIOS setting. It might be worth posting a request for help on the HP Compaq forums:-
http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=1056906

Finally in my travels around the www, I stumbled across a chap who got Linux running on an n800c (similar to yours but with a CD ROM drive), back in 2004. Linux has improved a lot since then. You might find it interesting. You might even want to drop him a line and ask about this hard disk/BIOS issue:-
http://www.ailis.de/~k/archives/2-Linux-on-Compaq-Evo-N800c.html (http://www.ailis.de/%7Ek/archives/2-Linux-on-Compaq-Evo-N800c.html)

HTH best wishes, G.

[TheTranquilEye]

Cheers MrGoose.

The BIOS is extremely basic indeed and I can see no way of adjusting any HDD parameters.

I have another day off today, so may well delve into the Compaq forums for a look around.

I shall keep you posted...

TTE