Htpc

[wakingDan]

Hello guys, I would like to build a HTPC which would either have the movies stored on an internal hard drive or through NAS.

Now I am learning more and more about building computers, I'd like to think I am a fair distance off of being a complete novice - however I am no expert.

My question is this:

When looking for a motherboard to run a HTPC on, what are the specs would I need to be looking at, with what figures?

I take it I need to keep an eye on the FBS - but what speed is recomended / minimum?

I imagine I would need a graphics card but what spec? ( i know some onboard graphics that relate to an atom processor can achieve 1080 graphics?)

What kind of processor would I need?


Initially I would like to but a SD HTPC however if upgrade to running Blu Rays in the future that would be great. Thanks guys.

[bezza]

I think there are three main considerations when building an HTPC:

1) Case
2) Noise
3) Temperatures

Firstly, choose the case you want - typically this is going to be a small but sleek affair that take a mATX board (the small ones) so size is a limiting factor when it comes to chucking stuff in the case. Silverstone make some tasty ones but they aren't cheap, after that most case manufacturers get involved so have a look round and choose one and post back here with your favourite.

With that decided, you then need to think about noise - it's no good having a jet engine parked under your TV because you'll soon get bored of it. So the idea is to choose quiet components (CPU cooler, graphics card being the main ones - PSUs can be fairly quiet). Trouble is that quiet components typically mean hotter components and, with a small case, you can get to very high temps quite quickly. In the end, it all becomes a balancing act.

You'll probably find that you'll be going for CPUs with a lower clock speed than a full PC just so you can go with minimum cooling or passive cooling (no fans). Same with GPU - it's not going to be a 4870X2 cos they'd be enough to heat your room but more like a cooler, passive, lower-spec card.

So overall, it's not so much spec when it comes to HTPCs - certainly don't expect the latest gaming PC performance - but a compromise to reduce heat and noise.

Do you have a budget in mind - some of the guys here would happily spec a machine for you to build. have a trawl through the threads too - a couple of people have recently built HTPCs. And have a look at bagging a Corsair 450w modular PSU before they go too - perfect PSU for a HTPC.

[system7]

Home cinema or HTPC setups really revolve around a special sort of motherboard with DVI and HDMI outputs for a TV, and good quality onboard graphics. Sound works over HDMI, and you will likely have plenty of options with DVI too.

You would generally want an AMD 785G or Intel H55 board these days.

Asus M4A785D-M Pro DDR2 785G with AMD Athlon II X3 435 or X4 630 CPU:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/AMDAM3AMDChipsetMotherboards/Asus/90-MIB920-G0EAY00Z.html

Asus M4A785TD-M EVO DDR3 785G with Athlon II X3 435 or X4 630 CPU:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/AMDAM3AMDChipsetMotherboards/Asus/90-MIBAD0-G0EAY00Z.html

Gigabyte GA H55M-S2H DDR3 board for i3 530 Intel CPU:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/Intel1156H55And57Fori3,i5Andi78Series/Gigabyte/GA-H55M-S2H.html#

All very nice.

[Mr Grapes]

the big question is what do you want to do with your HTPC? It's such a massive bracket!

1. just play divx/xvid TV/film rips at Standard def (what is your display? LCD panel or CRT tube?)
2. play HD rips/ blueray discs?
3. capture/PVR functionality a-la Sky+/V+/Tivo
4. play games too (Newest/recent/oldish/retro)

SD video requires almost no CPU effort (my old Xbox 1 can run SD video no problem and that's a 700 MHz Pentium 3)
HD requires massive amounts of CPU (at least a 3.0 Core2Duo) or hardware offloading (recent nVidia/ati/Intel HD chipsets can all do it)

and what's your budget?
As Bezza says, sound is your primary concern. depending on how many of the above you want to do, you'll have to spend more and more to keep it quiet as you need more and more heat generating components that have to be cooled... quietly.

the absolute bang for buck system, for playback only, is an off the shelf Acer Revo (or similar nVidia ion based box) for around £200-250.

http://lifehacker.com/5391308/build-a-silent-standalone-xbmc-media-center-on-the-cheap

it will do most of what's listed above with just a copy of XBMC (http://xbmc.org) on it.
(specifically, it will play HD content, high bitrate 1080p without sweating, off network or from HDD, play quite a few games up to maybe 3 years old, do emulators, desktop, web browsing, but NOT TiVo style record/timeshift or play recent GPU heavy games - I played Half life 2 on a very similarly specced machine without too much problem)

if you want to build your own, there is another thread recently (http://forum.novatech.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20916) where Seanbond specced a system which pretty much mirrors the guts of a revo.

[wakingDan]

Hey guys, I attempted to spec a cheap machine and it came in at £316 ... Is that good or bad?

I was thinking about:
- grabbing a basic case until I can afford a better one
- getting a lower frequency RAM
but that would only bring the price down by around £30ish.

Would someone be able to give me some feedback on what I have chosen today?

Thanks in advance

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/AMDAM3AMDChipsetMotherboards/Asus/90-MIB920-G0EAY00Z.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Memory-PCAndLaptop/DDR2-PC2-8500/1066MHz/Crucial/BL2KIT12864AA106A.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/HardDrives-Internal/SATA500GBto1TB/WesternDigital/WD10EARS.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Processors/AMDAthlonX2AndX4/AMD/ADX240OCGQBOX.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/OpticalDrives/SATADVDWriters/Optiarc/AD-7240S-0B.html

[Mr Grapes]

difficult to comment till you tell us what you'd like the box to do... (both ultimately and immediately.)

for your initial comment of playing SD content, even this is quite overkill - a regular atom machine can handle SD stuff fine

do you intend to run Windows + a media frontend, or are you planning to use linux (e.g. boxee live or XBMC live) it will affect hardware choices if you intend to ever run 1080p (even if your display is 720p, but your content is 1080p then there's actually more to do as you not only have to decode the 1080p but then downscale it to 720p aswell)

[oxigin]

Please corect me if im wrong but a HTPC is basically a PC which you would watch movies ect.. on ?
What software do you use to rip the movies off the disk and onto the HD?.. Or is that not how it works? =/

[Mr Grapes]

DVD decrypter is a good one, (google it)
DVD fab
AnyDVD

acidRip or DVD::Rip on linux

then use Handbrake to compress them down a little bit into x264 MKV's

[oxigin]

Ahh ok cheers ill check them out

P.S WakingDan - It looks like you may have overlooked a PSU unless you already have one?

[system7]

Hey guys, I attempted to spec a cheap machine and it came in at £316 ... Is that good or bad?

I was thinking about:
- grabbing a basic case until I can afford a better one
- getting a lower frequency RAM
but that would only bring the price down by around £30ish.

Would someone be able to give me some feedback on what I have chosen today?

Thanks in advance

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/AMDAM3AMDChipsetMotherboards/Asus/90-MIB920-G0EAY00Z.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Memory-PCAndLaptop/DDR2-PC2-8500/1066MHz/Crucial/BL2KIT12864AA106A.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/HardDrives-Internal/SATA500GBto1TB/WesternDigital/WD10EARS.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Processors/AMDAthlonX2AndX4/AMD/ADX240OCGQBOX.html

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/OpticalDrives/SATADVDWriters/Optiarc/AD-7240S-0B.html

The appeal of a DDR2 motherboard is you can reuse some old DDR2-667 or DDR2-800 RAM. RAM speed makes little difference as it goes, but can help overclocking. All looks good to me. You might consider a tuner card, Blu-Ray drive and one of those neat compact cases.

The E-Cute case looks fun:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Cases/Cases/Novatech/E-CUTE910BLACK.html

[IainK]

or a coolermaster Elite 360, they're around £30, they're compact, take full size ATX and full height graphics look good and are really well ventilated (up to 2X120mm and 3X80mm) the finish is really good aswell, the paint job is much better than on my antec 300

only thing you have to watch with that case is the power supply, the shorter the better as the PSU will restrict the length of expansion cards

[sniperdude]

this is my HTPC i built a few months back


http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=GD04&area=usa
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=NT01-E&area=usa
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2009/08/04/gigabyte-ga-ma785gmt-ud2h-review/1
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/177049
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Memory-PCAndLaptop/DDR3-PC3-10666/1333MHz/G.Skill/F3-10666CL8D-4GBRM.html
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/PowerSupplies/Corsair/CMPSU-450HXUK.html



will play anything board comes with a HD4200 graphics built in :)
I also got a pci fan control....its silent almost :cool:

[wakingDan]

Sorry guys, I forgot to add the link to the ECute case. - which I was going to ask if it is worth bothering sticking to any standard PSU?

Mr.Grapes you are right I was thinking it was a bit overkill, but I did the best with the cheapest processor Novatech had to offer - not thinking about the processor + board combos they sell.

Hmmmm, well I suppose for now I am just after SD content playback, it would be nice to play games and stuff, but I am quite happy just to install linux and have it sit as a box ready to play movies and perhaps music too.

Long term HD content would be nice, but if it means a large hike in price then I can just do without :)

I have in my mag, an atom motherboard with a specific chipset which I hope you guys could take a look at - I dont think novatech stock it, but they do stock similar ones...

Zotac Ion N330 IonITX-AB - that is how it is printed, there arent any spaces missing.

the CPU is a Intel Atom N330 and the graphics come in the form of Nvida GeForce 9400M

This came from my PC Plus magazine page 10 issue 293
I bought it because it feature story was about HTPCs and PVRs

[wakingDan]

I have found a motherboard that is also used for HD playback

http://www.pugetsystems.com/part_info.php?part=6570

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/IntelMiniITXMotherboards/IONITX-F-E.html

[wakingDan]

I specked another comp but its still around £300 - however I think its capable of HD playback

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/IntelMiniITXMotherboards/IONITX-F-E.html#top

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Memory-PCAndLaptop/DDR2-PC2-6400/800MHz/Crucial/BL25664AA80A.html#top

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/HardDrives-Internal/SATA500GBto1TB/WesternDigital/WD10EARS.html#top

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Cases/Cases/Novatech/E-CUTE910BLACK.html

I already have a **** dvd drive which ill update with a blu ray drive eventually

Am I atleast doing somewhat better?

[Mr Grapes]

dan chill. there's no right or wrong answer. just what you need to do what you want and to your budget. the zotac ion boards are excellent for this task. low noise, power etc and do pretty much everything out of the box. I think one even comes with an on board psu and external brick.
oh btw, if you want to spec a part that nova doesn't sell, it's ok to list it.

[wakingDan]

I'll take your advice and will take a chill pill :)
If the Atom boards do not come with a PSU, should I look to invest in one which is lower in voltage (providing it is still sufficeint)? As it would bring down the running costs over time.

Do you think that it would handle light gaming at all?
Running an emulator and some roms for example? for the N64 console.

[sniperdude]

I personally wouldn't go for atom :ghey:

if you going to build something build something that your not going to say to yourself
I wish it was faster at doing this or doing that extracting a large file on a Atom would be an all day task lol

if its too slow you will end up building 2 machines because the first don't cut the mustard

I know you say you don't want to play HD and you just want to play sd if thats all your going to do you might as well buy one of these
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/167205

[Mr Grapes]

@Snipe atoms on their own sure. they are teh suckeh.
Atom+ion for media playback including high bitrate HD is a perfect match. low power=low heat=doesn't sound like a jet engine taking off while you're trying to watch a movie, unless you're doing this for e-peen.

I think the real question you have to ask yourself is are you building this to be your main PC, or will it be dedicated to just playing media with maybe a few other light tasks besides.

If i was building my media player from scratch an ION is exactly what i'd use. however with a single core conroe-L celeron underclocked to 1.4 Ghz running on a 9300 chipset motherboard (same as ION) the CPU load when watching 1080p is around 4%. ultra CPU's just aren't necessary anymore*

*the caveat is is dependant on what else you want to do on the box of course... if you intend to use the box to "extract large files" all day long or do your DVD->x264 encoding then sure, the ion platform is not a good choice, but then it's not a media player anymore, but a general purpose device.

the solution of course is something like this:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/Components/Motherboards/IntelMiniITXMotherboards/Zotac/GF9300-I-E.html#
then you can drop in what ever socket 775 CPU you desire, which is anything from an old Pentium4 (bad idea) 35w celeron conroe-L (what i use) dual core celeron E3xxx (perfect IMO for a more general PC use) right up to a quad (cooling will be more of an issue then.)
any of the lower power CPU's can be had from ebay for like a tenner, thus allowing for a future upgrade as necessary.
also has a PCI-E slot so if you want, you add a tuner card or upgraded GFX/sound

Welcome dan to the contentious issue of what a HTPC really is ;)

[sniperdude]

well when I built my own I didnt plan for it to be a main pc at all if I Had it would have ended up with a I7 HTPC LOL

i went for cool and quiet and yet not too slow so i went for a AMD energy efficient
240E the chip clocks it self down from 2.8ghz to 800mhz when idle
is very cool so much so I can run it passively cooled with the cooler in my post above

I use this pc to download from newsgroups and if often has to extract RAR files that are over 5GB

to me a media centre is just that, a pc for media this would include a freeview tv card and or DVBS2 satellite HD card (you have no chance of this with a ZOTAC with no PCI)

for the price of that ZOTAC board I got a 240E CPU and my motherboard :D

[Pullen]

I might be missing something here, but why don't you just buy a blu-ray player?

[Peeej]

I have an old P4 @ 2.8 and a 4550 (Passive) which I use, it happily plays SD and will run HD content. It streams SD over a set of Powerline plugs running from my main machine in to the living room. Its less happy streaming HD.

The 4550 has a built in HD decoder specifically for Blu-ray and HD.

XMBC and Boxee (same thing pretty much) are great bits of software and will allow iplayer to work through it too.

[sniperdude]

another way to go is popcornhour :D

loads of options aye lol

[f12f12]

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/range/ionplus.html

[Mr Grapes]

It's unfortunate that NT have chosen the ION name for that product but still uses a plain atom pineview, not a nVidia ION chipset. could cause a lot of confusion.

also Western digital WD Live (http://www.trustedreviews.com/multimedia/review/2009/10/29/Western-Digital-WDTV-Live-HD-Media-Player/p1)

@pullen
can a standalone bluray player do this:
kBBIuEQv2C8

[wakingDan]

I might be missing something here, but why don't you just buy a blu-ray player?

I don't fancy buying a blu ray, poping it into the drive and watching a film. Especially as I'd have to trawl through all of the blu rays / dvds that are on a shelf to decide what I want to watch, then find a film open the case and the disk is missing or damaged (potentially).

Ideally I'd like to load all of my films into one console, turn it one flick through the films perhaps select a film based on the director, genre, actors, etc all whilst sitting in bed on the sofa, or wherever else the HTPC will be situated.

[wakingDan]

I'm sorry if I'm not answering all of your questions guys, I am trying to though.

Okay so the HTPC

I'd like to watch films
Some like internet use - perhaps to watch youtube videos and browse Novatech :)
I would prefferably like to rip my films to this machine rather than rip them to another machine and pass them back - but I could live with it I imagine
Hold a music libary and play through some external speakers that are wall mounted - possibly into another room?
Some light gaming (where possible) on some emulators

I'm not sure of all of the things a HTPC can do so I'm sure I have missed something out.

If they worked out at a close price, would it be better to underclock a CPU or would it be more adviseable to go with the atom set up?

I had an atom in my ...Dell...laptop before - that laptop has killed itself and I haven't managed to get it sorted yet... but that managed to run okay, a bit laggy at times.



HTPC's are fun :D

PS. how do I display that I am from Portsmouth?

[Mr Grapes]

Acer Revo 3610 for under £200 (from another major retailer, shouldn't take you long to find out which one ;) )+ XBMC live or boxee live (free) installed to the 250 Gb disk. external slim DVD drive, or do the ripping on another machine and transfer to the revo, either in advance or on demand.
Done.

will easily handle everything you've mentioned. only issue is if you ever want to do capture, you won't be able to add a tuner card, but you can do that on a 'backend' machine if needed. (media portal, Myth TV and Sage TV all support the backend/frontend model so no great loss really)