ASRock 478, BUT MUCH, MUCH MORE!!!!

[algypalgy]

Hi all, still messing with this old Novatech Performer Pro PC, with an ASRock MOBO P4i65G, CPU Socket478, FSB800 MHz, running at 3200 MHz, has 2GB 184 Pin DDR400 Ram, Using onboard Intel EXtreme Graphics 2, HDD 120GB Maxtor. PSU 300w, with XP Pro installed.

All setup and installed, but!!! After installing XP it crashed and wouldn't reboot, so went through all the usual checks, memory, cables, etc, etc.

So far I have manged to get it to boot after about 11 minutes (no bleeps), I then load the Screen cable, wait about another 10 minutes, plug in the keyboard (PS/2), then more time to get the PS/2 Mouse to work, then boots into XP.

However, at every stage there is a constant clicking noise that eventually dies off, number of clicks reduces. I plug in the next stage - more constant clicking, an so ,and so on. So far I have had it working for upto about 3-4 hours, but it always crashes, and I have to wait a couple of hours before I can start again. The constant clicking seems to come from a fan installed at the front, but it could just as easily emannate from the HDD, the Floppy, or the CD Drive

At first I thought it was the Fan, then the PSU, then the HDD, etc, etc. So I would be very grateful if anyone has any ideas???

PS, forgot the Mobo is new. Kind regards, Algypalgy.

[JDowdall]

urrr ohhhh (or as scooby says ruhhh rohhhh) :P clicking usualy equals dying hard drive i would back up anything you need to and try a different one

[algypalgy]

Many thanks, JDowdall, mmmm, already tried that with a brand new Maxtor 160GB Diamond Max 20, and had the same thing. The 160GB HDD is now in a Caddy attached to my new computer by USB 2.0, and works a treat. So not sure I want to buy yet another HDD, but I may try to switch them over again - but don't really see the point!!!!!

Thanks again for the speedy response, I'm very grateful, Algypalgy.

[JDowdall]

dont know but u cud maybe try and putting a new bios on there as if u have changed 2 a caddy it must have been the hard drive but u used a different one and still the same problem so i doubt it is the bios but you could still try it

[algypalgy]

Thanks again JDowdall for the speedy respose, but, yes you guessed it, I already flashed a new Bios, cleared the CMOS several times. However, I am really grateful, so keep the suggestions coming, we are bound to hit on the answer sooner or later. Also made up my mind to try the new HDD again, but not until tomorrow.

Kind regards, Algypalgy

[algypalgy]

Hi again JDowdall, hope your still watching. Anyway went ahead and reinstalled the new HDD 160GB, same thing happened. In fact it seems worse, as soon as I try to plug in the PS/2 Keyboard or Mouse clicking becomes very fast. Even tried to plug them in when the PC was running - result, instant crash.

Never heard of it before, but could it be something to do with the IO components on the Mobo?? Just a thought, as I'm completely stumped!!!

Kind regards, Alagpalgy.

[JDowdall]

that is the only thing i can think it can be its obviously not the hard drive so its either the cables or the i/o ports on it is it a sata or ide device ur trying 2 install? if you could try installing a sata drive if its ide or a ide if its a sata

[algypalgy]

First of all, I tried the cables by switching with completley new ones, tried different PS/2 Keyboards and Mice (Mouses !! Don't quite sound Right). I can get a USB Keyboard to work pretty easy, but don't have a USB Mouse, but, then again, this doesn't solve the problem.

Affraid I can't try the Sata HDD option without buying a new one, and I don't really want to do that.

Do you know of any other Forums' that delve more deeply into Motherboard issue?

Many thanks for sticking with it. Best regards, Algypalgy.

[JDowdall]

No i cant say i do (this is where the other resident lurkers on the forum jump in with suggestions) but im fairly sure u can put the problem down to the motherboard in some shape or form have u looked @ a ide-sata converter?

[algypalgy]

Hope so JDowdall, but none yet!!!!

Never knew you could convert IDE to Sata, can't see how it might help, I'll give it some serious thought though.

Thanks for all your help. Best regards, Algypalgy

[JDowdall]

if u get the converter you would be able to plug your ide drive through the converter into the sata port on your motherboard bybassing the possibly faulty ide port on your mobo :P

[algypalgy]

OK, JDawdall, I'll give it a try. Do you know if Novatech sales such an item, or should I go to someone like Maplin?

Kind regards, Algypalgy.

[JDowdall]

there you go :P http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?CAB-RB420 its a tad expensive but cheaper than another hard drive!!

[system7]

You can't hotplug PS2 keyboards, mice and displays on a PC and expect them to work. It's not like USB. Unplug at the mains first, the motherboard is live and in 5V standby even when switched off in software.

Ubuntu can have screen refresh issues with Intel graphics and TFT monitors, because the default is 75 Hz or so, but the live CD is a good hardware diagnostic.
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download

It will allow you to test memory too, though I would check your power supply is up to it, maybe 300W, and clear and reset the CMOS before booting. Use Cable Select (CS) jumpering on modern drives and 80 core ATA133 ribbons.

[algypalgy]

Many thanks JDowdall, and to you too Steve (System Seven). I kinda new that about hotplugging, but its amazing what you might try when you get a bit frustrated.

With regards to the other points, the only thing I have not tried was the Ubantu diagostics, though I have loaded it several times, problem is I can't get the mouse to work with it when its loaded so can't use it, though the sceen works perfectly well. As Iv'e mentioned above I have done the CMOS, cables HDD switching and testing the various jumpers, etc, etc.

Notwithstading the above, I will beaver away until I make it work, or die in the process.

Very gratefu for the suggestions. Kind regards, Algypalgy.

[system7]

I must admit, I successfully use a PS2 mouse with Ubuntu Live CD on the same chipset as you. Actually it's a Microsift USB optical running through a PS2 adapter.

I wonder if that's the problem? Faulty mouses do terrible things...like Windows rapidly popping up and closing. :lol:

[algypalgy]

Thanks for the speedy response Steve, the problem experienced with the PS/2 Mouse, is the same as the PS/2 Keyboard, and the Screen I plug into the IO board as well, I also experience the same with each USB I plug in, but far less of it.

Every time I startup, I go through the process outlined above, as the clicking subsides I powerdown, plug something in to the IO board, wait for the clicking to stop, powerdown, plug something else in, startup, etc, etc. Each piece of hardware is tested on my other computer and all work perfectly well.

Perhaps I should also say I'm a Pensioner, living on limited income, I can't afford this and that without having to save for it. It's the main reason I'm trying so hard to get this old PC going again, and it keeps my brain active as well, but I reackon two PC's will also give me many more opportunities to experiment and experience all this new and wonderful technology.

Best regards, Algypalgy.

[system7]

It's a toughie, this. I just reread the thread to get a grip on it. It's a PS2 mouse you're using, so Ubuntu LiveCD shouldn't have any problems running OK, though you do have to burn the downloaded disk slowly for reliability. In fact I'm posting from Ubuntu LiveCD right now.

I do recall that motherboards that take a couple of hours to reset after a crash, are likely to have two tracks on the motherboard shorting. As it cools, they stop touching. It could be a dry joint or bad connection somewhere too. And the power supply could have similar issues. You should unplug a power supply to completely reset it.

You can right click on My Computer, go properties/system properties/advanced/startup and recovery settings then disable restart on system failure. This gets you a blue screen (BSOD) message to diagnose on failure sometimes.

Otherwise go right click My Computer/manage/event viewer and see what's been happening.

The only definite hardware suggestion I have is to check the motherboard screws aren't excessively tight. Reseating the processor, redoing the heatsink paste, and reseating memory would do no harm either. :?

[algypalgy]

Hi Steve, and thanks for your help.

Just tried your suggestions re the Mobo, screws seem OK to me, and the Processor was only installed on the Mobo about 10 days ago, and it seems to be running fine to me.

Ubuntu, live disk was only used to check wether it was the OS (Windows XP Pro) causing the problem, but I can't get the PS/2 mouse to load attall using Ubuntu, so I can't do anything with it once its loaded.

However, I will give it another try later on, and let you know what happens.

Best regards, Algypalgy.

[system7]

That mouse not initialising is odd. You wouldn't think there are many compatibility issues with old technology like that. I certainly haven't run into it. You haven't wired the keyboard and mouse the wrong way round, of course. I have a few DOS bootable CDs like downloaded hard drive utilities that use a mouse that might test this.

The clicking noise on boot is interesting. That can come from a floppy drive reinitialising as a faulty power supply or motherboard keeps resetting. You can use a biro tube (careful!) or screwdriver handle to your ear to locate the source of a noise. I expect you know what the quieter hard drive noises sound like.

Don't see any Asrock P4i65G bios issues worth mentioning with an IDE drive:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/download.asp?Model=P4i65G&s=n

And you sound far too savvy to have fallen for any cable/jumper issues or incompatible memory. But the old minimum hardware barebones boot is always worth trying. :?

[algypalgy]

Thanks again Steve, but not quite sure what you mean by "barebones boot" except to say that the PC is first started without any components attached. However, the one thing I have not tried yet is starting with everything atached - getting desperate again!!!

I'll let you know how I get on later tonight.

Best regards, Algypalgy.

PS, I think this thing with the Floppy Drive may have something in it, because I get a sense that the Mobo does keep on resetting, but then again the floppy drive is the last item in the boot sequence. Somtimes, at first start, it also feels/sounds like the power is flicking on and off, but I can't find anything to confirm this.

[algypalgy]

Thanks again Steve, but not quite sure what you mean by "barebones boot" except to say that the PC is first started without any components attached. However, the one thing I have not tried yet is starting with everything atached - getting desperate again!!!

I'll let you know how I get on later tonight.

Best regards, Algypalgy.

PS, I think this thing with the Floppy Drive may have something in it, because I get a sense that the Mobo does keep on resetting, but then again the floppy drive is the last item in the boot sequence. Somtimes, at first start, it also feels/sounds like the power is flicking on and off, but I can't find anything to confirm this.

[system7]

Barebones boot to test a motherboard at bios level is CPU and Fan, one stick of memory and display and keyboard, after clearing the CMOS by taking the battery out for 5 minutes with the power unplugged as ever. You can then unplug the power again and try without any RAM at all. If you have a motherboard speaker, it will beep several times.

It's a bit useless skipping the keyboard because you'll want to enter the bios with DEL or such after clearing CMOS and re-enter time and date, adjust things like boot order, and save and exit. But you should get a display without one. CTRL-ALT-DEL is the keyboard command to reset at this level, and pressing the power button to shut down.

Once everything is hunky-dunky, you then unplug the power and connect mouse and hard drive, and attempt to get into Windows, tapping Safe Mode F8 after the bios screen if necessary. Only after success here, do you start adding all the other stuff, with the power unplugged, of course.

There are degrees of static precautions, but touching the case before components and avoiding wearing artificial fibres always works for me. I expect the boffins at Novatech wear earthed ankle straps and and use grounded mats. :lol:

[algypalgy]

OK Steve, just had a bit off a break through, but didn't last long.

Anyway used your tip with the Biro, and finally isolated the clicking to the Floppy Drive, which I then removed from PC. The PC started first time on the button, but then died on me and I can't get it to go atall now. However the clicking had stopped, I'm now thinking that there is something wrong with the PSU. Should also add that I tried your barebones boot, which helped put me on the trail of the Floppy.

So big thanks, at least we have moved on, and I'm very grateful. I have to go out tonight, but I'll start in again tomorrow.

Best regards to you and JDowdall, Algypalgy.

[JDowdall]

yeah your psu might not be sufficient have a look at the different strands on the cable (or rails) and try to maybe put the motherboard on one rail and then spread the rest of the components out between the other rails you could have them all on one rail which isnt good :P

[system7]

Progress, indeed. :D

Since algypalgy is trying a barebones boot here, I don't suppose the any rail but the main motherboard supply is being used. The floppy clicking is a symptom, of course. It doesn't mean the floppy is faulty.

The clear next step is to try another power supply. Borrow a >300W, or buy something like this Novatech favourite Hiper 350W:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?HYP-4S350

The Hiper has overvoltage protection, which means that if it blows it is unlikely to take out a motherboard or keyboard. Some cheapies you buy don't.

I don't know an easy way to distinguish a failed or flaky power supply from a typical motherboard failure, though 5V standby lights and twitching 12V fans give a clue of some life in the supply. I think I would look at the quality and rating of the existing supply to guess the odds.

[algypalgy]

Ok Steve I decided its probably a good idea to purchase the PSU, so I'll be picking a new one up tomorrow. Even if it doesn't solve the problem, I can put it away as part of a new build if this rebuild goes totally wrong.

I will let you know how I get on, so fingers crossed!!!

Kind regards, Algypalgy.

[JDowdall]

yeah that hiper psu will power a lot more than u have lol :P keep us up to date

[algypalgy]

Hi Steve, got back a bit early tonight, so I thought I'd have another go at it.

First still took a couple of minutes to powerup, then another 4 or 5 minutes to get to the post screen, guess it needs to warm up a bit but no clicking and no beeps. Went into the Bios did the usual settings, then booted into XP. Had it up and running for 3 and a half hours.

So, overall, things beginning to look up, but I don't understand why, having previously removing the Floppy Drive it never stopped the clicking, so I guess it might have been a combination of the things you recommended I do today (sorry thats now yesterday). Also installed Ubantu, and was getting on well until it crashed a few minutes ago. Nevertheless, I'm happy because I feel that we are making real progress, but did notice that the time and date was switching around, so I think I'd better look at the CMOS battery while I'm at it. I'll let you know how I get on after I install the new PSU, and possibly a new CMOS battery.

Your help is very much appreciated. I'll get back to you later.

Best regards, Algypalgy.

[system7]

The clicking is back???? Is it a relay in the PSU making the noise?

Check the CMOS Clear jumper hasn't been inadvertently left in the 2-3 position. That battery is too new to be flat. But you do have to save changes in bios before exiting, and setting boot order to CD before HD is important.

You can try a boot with just the optical drive connected and maybe Ubuntu, no hard drive at all. The hard drive and optical drive can both be jumpered Master if they are single on their respective ribbons. Cable select can be also used exclusively on the modern finer ATA133 type of ribbon.

But there is one thing here that is worth thinking about. What is causing the crashes? When you said the mouse wasn't working on Ubuntu Live CD, I think you really meant it had locked up. Now if the hot-running prescott processor is overheating and causing a crash, it could very well be the cause of the restart problems. Unplugging power and clearing CMOS is the usual remedy to restart.

The bios may give you a CPU temperature of 40C idle, 50C busy as reasonable. The free utility "PC Wizard" in Windows can do the same sort of monitoring. This could be down to poor case ventilation on the motherboard chipset and/or an inadequate CPU cooler.

[algypalgy]

Hi Steve, just wanted to update you. Not had a chance to install the new PSU, but PC seems to working almost normally, and CMOS also seems to have sorted itself out.

Started using the Ubuntu OS last night, bit different from Microsoft, I was up until 4.30am trying to setup an email/internet account, but never mind
I guess these things take time, and I have plenty of that.

Once again, many thanks for your help.

Best regards, Algypalgy.

[algypalgy]

Really good news Steve, I just finished installing PSU, plugged it in, switched the powerup button, and, yes, the old girl is working perfectly again.

So big thanks to you, and JDowdall. :D

[system7]

That's really good news, algypalgy. I got in a bit of a panic at the last minute about the overheating possibility, not knowing how experienced you might be with this sort of thing. People sometimes replace a Celeron with a hot Pentium and keep the old weedy heatsink... :lol: Anyway, amazing how often a feeble power supply is the culprit. What was the old one as a matter of interest?

You might find check out Automatix2 installer for Ubuntu, it gets all the non-free stuff working, like flash and DVD playback.http://www.getautomatix.com/

And PC Wizard and CPU-Z are very educational free Windows programs:
http://www.cpuid.com/index.php

Send me a PM with your address, and I'll post you a FX5200 AGP card I've got lying about. You could have a little fun with that. Works nicely with Linux too.:D

[algypalgy]

Thanks Steve, certainly made me feel better too.

The old PSU was a bog-standard thing (Jou Jye Electronics Co., Ltd. Model No: JJ-300PPGA). Thanks for the offer of the GPU, but I will know reinstall my old ATi Radeon X1600 Pro (that is after removing the Intel integrated files)

Ihad to bite the bullet today and buy a new OEM of XP Pro SP2, as the old one would'nt register, but I think I prefer it to the new Vista Ultimate I'm running on the new computer - guess we're all happier with what we know!

However, I think I'll set it up in a Dual Boot with Ubuntu, and thanks for the tip on the Automatix site looks as if it will be useful. I can also spend the next few months setting up a little home network. :D

Thankfully I'm of on a Birding holiday to Spain next week. :lol:

Best regards, Algypalgy.