Complete Novice - Need HELP !

[Genetic]

well i think its time to replace the old system and i think ive finaly convinced myself to have ago and build my own , like the title says im a complete novice at building PC's apart from a basic gfx card upgrade ive never touched anything inside the case.
well anyway unfortunatly my bugdet is a rather strick £400 i dont need monitor , keyboard or mouse , its 99% of the time going to be used for online gaming.
so i think it needs atleast 2gig of ram , atleast a 4800 or equivelent processor i have no idea about intel's processor's , and a half decent gfx card probably a 512 ?? of some sort but other than this i have no idea what i need to buy and what is compatable with what :? dont really need a massive hard drive so probably a 160 will do.
so the challenge is to spec me the best possible gaming rig for as little money as possible or atleast as close to £400 as possible.


ok what ive thought about so far -
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... l?BB-X26DB (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?BB-X26DB)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... NOV-1950P5 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-1950P5) or
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... HIS-26XTT5 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?HIS-26XTT5)

i have no idea what Hard drive will go into it ? ( will any1 just plug in ? )

and obviously just some standard CD-drive for about £20 ? will do ?

what else do i need ? sorry im sounding like a right n00b now

[Jonny2Bad]

Well as you dont need a monitor etc we can get you a good system for that price i would go for a intel dual core as they are much faster and can also overclock later to save u upgrading for another year or so!! Right I'll have a look and see what we can come up with!!!

[Jonny2Bad]

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... l?TT-W0101 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?TT-W0101)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?MSI-P31NF (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MSI-P31NF)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... CSR-VS662G (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?CSR-VS662G)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?WD-16AAJS (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?WD-16AAJS)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... l?IL-E6750 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?IL-E6750)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... NOV-88GTS3 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-88GTS3)
Well this little lot comes to about £450 but its a top whack system really high quality gaming machine that any gamer would be proud to be gaming on well worth the extra cash my friend!!

[Genetic]

yeah doesnt look to bad but i forgot to mention i need a new case which also means a new cd drive which is going to push it up over the £500 mark which i just cant stretch to at the moment.

so maybe -

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... l?BB-E672G (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?BB-E672G)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... BFG-86GTOT (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?BFG-86GTOT)
or
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... HIS-26XTT5 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?HIS-26XTT5)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?SAM-S202N (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?SAM-S202N)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... MAX-DM168S (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?MAX-DM168S)

£423.51 inc vat with the Nvidia card
£395.31 inc vat with the ATI card

is everything ive listed compatable with each other as i havnt got a clue lol.

so which is the better gfx card to go with ATI or Nvidia ?

also ATI have the 2600XT and the X1950 PRO
and Nvidia have the 8600 GT and the XFX 8600 GT

they all sound the same to me how do i know which is the best to go for considering its going to be used for gaming it surely just cant be down to price.

and would i save alot if any money by buying the bits seperatly rather than the barebones kit as being the magpie i am the barebones case looks boring and we all like shiny flashy things lol. or would novatech just be kind enough to let me change the barebones case 8)

[Jonny2Bad]

what sort of games will you be playing or buying in the future and do you want it to really perfoem well at these games?

[Genetic]

i mainly play MMO fps shooters for example planetside , and looking at getting unreal and Huxley if and when it ever get released :cry:

so its all about get the best fps performance i suppose and making the graphics look prettier than they do on this piece of junk.

[Jonny2Bad]

then i really wouldnt go for 1 of those gpu's as they dont offer great gaming performance i really would suggest saving at going for the 8800 gts it offers such great gaming performance!!!

[Genetic]

i really wont have the cash avaliable for a while , so what about going for the 8600GT and then adding another 1 in SLI at a later date ?

[djgandy]

Do it. Top end cards arent all they are hyped up to be. I can play all the new games on my ancient old card. Ok I can't play at 1650x1080 with everything turned on, but who cares? Gameplay > Graphics.

Take a look on amazon, you can get an 8600 GT for under £50 which is a bargain!

I wouldn't bother with SLI at a later date. By then there will be better cards out to put in your system.

[Genetic]

so everything should work together ok ? using the 8600 card , the E6750 barebones package and the hard drive and CD drive i put up ?

[djgandy]

Yeah It'll all work fine. If you are a gamer I'd recommend going for the 1950Pro as already recommended. There is also some new cards being released in the next 2 weeks so it might be a good idea to hold on till then.

[Jonny2Bad]

Well if really cant afford it i would do as dj says and go for the ati 1950 as it will give you far better gaming performance and mixed with the cpu and ram will cope very well with the current and some of the future games!!

[Jonny2Bad]

[quote="djgandy"]Do it. Top end cards arent all they are hyped up to be.quote]
Trust me m8 i went from the 7900 ct 512mb to my 8800 gts640, it is really all its hyped to be, even down to the extra brightness of the colours, it doesnt just make games play better it's a massive improvement!! You dont realise how much till you compare the 2!!!!!

[djgandy]

Do it. Top end cards arent all they are hyped up to be.quote]
Trust me m8 i went from the 7900 ct 512mb to my 8800 gts640, it is really all its hyped to be, even down to the extra brightness of the colours, it doesnt just make games play better it's a massive improvement!! You dont realise how much till you compare the 2!!!!!

I know but a lot of people still play at low resolutions and don't have all the eye candy turned on. They simply don't care that much that they'd spend £200+ on a card.

[Genetic]

ok now im even more confused on what card to get as both of you are saying get the ati 1950 but 2 people have told me to stay away from ati cards.
if i do go for the ATI card why not the 2600XT ?
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... HIS-26XTT5 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?HIS-26XTT5)
as its got higher clock speeds than the 1950PRO surely thats better or am i missing something ? its also DirectX 10 compable for the future where as the 1950 doesnt look like it is ???

god i really need some help with the gfx card , why cant they just make them all the same :wink:

[Jonny2Bad]

The 2600 will not give you great gaming performance where as the 1950 is designed for gamers the 2600 is more for the media centre pc market, there is only 2 types of gfx that i would suggest the 1900 series from ati or the 8800 series from nvidia, take it from me ive had low end, middle and high end cards and if you love gaming as i do it will make a whole heap of difference to your gaming experience the better card you buy, so if your price range is mid then i would wait to see what cards come out in nov as there is supposed to be a pretty good mid range nvidia card coming out for a decent price!!!

[Genetic]

ok well i think ive finaly got there , should be going to buy this on monday , any1 see any problems ? or anything i should change speak now or foreva hold your peace.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... p?BB-E672G (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?BB-E672G)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?SAM-S202N (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?SAM-S202N)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... MAX-DM168S (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?MAX-DM168S)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?SAP-950P5 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?SAP-950P5)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... NOV-FD144B (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.jsp?NOV-FD144B)

[Jonny2Bad]

Looks like your good to go!!!

[djgandy]

Personally I'd wait a few days and get the 8800GT. It should be out any moment now and nearly keeps up with an 8800GTX! $249 is the price so...i'll shutup because I just realised that won't fit into your budget

[Jonny2Bad]

Isnt it out in november? Should be interesting though!!

[djgandy]

Some leaked sources say 29th october :D Still it's worth the wait. Cheaper than a 8800GTS and more powerful.

[Jonny2Bad]

Yes i know if they are a decent price i might get 1 if they are that much better than the gts or might just wait for 9800 not sure wait to see!!! U should get 1 that ole 6600 is gonna struggle with cod4 and crysis isnt it!!

[djgandy]

Plays cod4 fine. I cba to install crysis at the moment so not tested that yet.

[Jonny2Bad]

What fps you getting on cod4? Just outta interest?

[djgandy]

50-120 depends where i am on the map

[djgandy]

lol well...

I put everything on full @ 1280x1024 and i get 10 fps. That is with absolutely everything up to the max though.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7162/shot0001zy4.jpg

With 4x AA i get 8 fps!

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2852/shot0002jx3.jpg

[Jonny2Bad]

Lol maybe think about investing in the new gfx got to aim for at least 50fps to be playing a game properly! I guess high end gfx are all they are cracked up to be lol!!!!

[djgandy]

My card is 2 generations old. An 8600 GT would perform pretty decent. My monitors don't go over 1280x1024 so GTX's aren't really necessary, although the extra fps is nice when playing online.

Waiting on the 8800GT anyway. If it's priced right I'll get that :)

[Jonny2Bad]

Well 10fps isn't what i'd call playing a game, drop your settings buddy so u get decent frame rates would be my advice!!!

[djgandy]

lol, i wasn't playing with those settings. As i said i get 50-120 with details turned down.

How does your card perform with everything on full (including AA and anisotripic filtering)?

[Jonny2Bad]

Well i'd love to tell you but for some reason i cant change my settings on the demo might try and reinstall in a bit but i defo hit over 60fps!! I get avg of 280fps on the css test, 99fps on bf2142, so it does make a **** of a difference, I dont go on about the cards just to make ppl spend their hard earned cash for nothing the detail the colour the fps are far better can u imagine going from 10fps to 70fps you would never want to return to 10fps again lol!!

[djgandy]

Well i'd love to tell you but for some reason i cant change my settings on the demo might try and reinstall in a bit but i defo hit over 60fps!! I get avg of 280fps on the css test, 99fps on bf2142, so it does make a **** of a difference, I dont go on about the cards just to make ppl spend their hard earned cash for nothing the detail the colour the fps are far better can u imagine going from 10fps to 70fps you would never want to return to 10fps again lol!!

Found some benchmarks.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/cal ... /page4.asp (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_4_demo_performance/page4.asp)

I can't do that resolution, but a guess using the data would mean 8800GTX would score about 60fps at my resolution. Yes i know it is faster than my card, but at the end of the day I can still play the game fine without all the eye candy. My card is 3 years old and cost around £100 new from novatech. It doesn't have XFX or BFG written all over it either!

Considering all that I don't think top end cards are all they are hyped up to be. The 320Mb GTS is struggling quite a bit at those levels of detail.

Anyway the 8800GT will be nice, should be up there with the GTX scores but for less than a 320 GTS.

[Jonny2Bad]

Well i just ran reinstalled it and i topped all the saettings and bottomed out at 58fps and topped at 138fps in the 1st section with everything maxed, I'm not putting your system down buddy just trying to point out that these cards are worth the money if you are a serious gamer and can stretch to the extra cost. Where as you were saying they are not all they r cracked up 2 be, to which i disagree!!

[Jonny2Bad]

Sorry should say i play on 32" lcd tv so my res is 1280x768!! But still i think any1 reading this would realise that spending that little bit extra really can be worth it if you can!!

[djgandy]

It's not really a little extra though £50 compared to £250+!!
You don't get 5x the performance.

I'm not saying the cards aren't good, i'm just saying for most people they aren't neccesary. People recommend top end cards, but unless you have a large screen supporting the resolutions then they are not really neccesary.

Comparing your card to mine is a bad comparison anyway since yours will have many more shaders etc. I might pickup a £50 8600 from amazon though just to see how it goes. Shame they don't do AGP versions since I could give it to my sis (for video decoding x264) once im done with it.

[Jonny2Bad]

Well if your a avid gamer then it'll be more needed than if your not if you buy the newsest and top titles then you want to be able to play them as best u can. It just depends on how much you want to spend and and how much you like gaming, a 8800 gts doesnt have to be put on a large monitor to make a system better or run faster, in fact the 320 is designed for the lesser monitor so not quite sure your advice is right if your only getting 10fps and im gettting over 60 then it is 5x's the performance unless my maths is wrong!! But anyway the midrange price of £175 is pretty reasonable for the amount of performance you get compared to £100 of the nearest competitor. But yesnot worth buying 1 now until the new cards come out!!

[djgandy]

Well if your a avid gamer then it'll be more needed than if your not if you buy the newsest and top titles then you want to be able to play them as best u can. It just depends on how much you want to spend and and how much you like gaming, a 8800 gts doesnt have to be put on a large monitor to make a system better or run faster, in fact the 320 is designed for the lesser monitor so not quite sure your advice is right if your only getting 10fps and im gettting over 60 then it is 5x's the performance unless my maths is wrong!! But anyway the midrange price of £175 is pretty reasonable for the amount of performance you get compared to £100 of the nearest competitor. But yesnot worth buying 1 now until the new cards come out!!

I'm saying a £50 8600 GT vs your card. My card is 3 years old. It has a value of nothing ;) No one in their right mind would buy my card for £50 today.

[Jonny2Bad]

Lol true

[Genetic]

well ive placed the order for the bits and peices that im going to collect on monday :) just thought of something tho - is it going to come with all the nescersery ( sorry **** spelling ) cables to conect everything together ?

[PulpzillA]

ive got a 7600GT at the moment and getting a cpu upgrade soon, was thinking would a 8600GT be a natural progression? as i'll have a dual core porcessor then.

[djgandy]

ive got a 7600GT at the moment and getting a cpu ('http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/products/a561x1y0z1p0s0n0m0') upgrade soon, was thinking would a 8600GT be a natural progression? as i'll have a dual core porcessor then.

A 8600GT will not be a lot better than what you have. The 8800GT that is soon to released will be though.

[Taxation]

saying that the 8600gt isnt that good isnt that true anymore, drivers that have come out have made it perform better. Keeping up with the 1950 series from ATI, but if you want great performance, and can wait for it, the next few months are very good for gfx card buys.
Get that new card you want with all the great new games coming out and have a merry xmas :wink:

[djgandy]

I've always said the 8600GT is fine. It's these people who only look at benchmarks which are done at high resolutions that knock it down. For the average person it is plenty of power, just not really worth getting over a 7600GT. With the 8800GT performing like a GTX for £130 there is just no competition :twisted: