no pci graphics cards??

[asteroid]

no one seems to sell simple PCI graphics cards any more?

we needed some for my work, why not AGP you say, no one has a non AGP motherboard these days, plus some people are using PCI express for faster bandwidth to the card

well PCI cards run in tandem with an onboard or a normal AGP graphics card without any problems.

At my work, a lot of the supervisors have two TFTs coupled to their PC to monitor call stats, or some users that do heavy spreadsheet or graphics work.

Yes, could get a dual head AGP card, this is not much use to corp users for the following reasons:-
1/ they are expensive
2/ 3d geforce/radeon technology is completely pointless in business unless you are doing 3D CAD or whatever
3/ they give off too much heat/need fans



Both Novatech and various competitors sites had nothing for our needs :(
After much searching around we found some online retailer had some new old stock 32Mb geforce PCI cards that were probably trendy about 3 years ago, that are fanless and are just the ticket, but an overkill as we just dont need 3D.

I really think you are missing out on some business here!! Plus a simple low cost PCI graphics card could be "upsold" as an extra to corp users who need a PC setup similar to ours. How a mention to Mr Pomroy? :)

[Chewie]

I di dfind a *new* company (one i've never tried before) last week after seeing an add in CUSTOMPC mag.

They had 2 PCI cards on offer, an MX4000 and a FX5200

I'll check my links at work see if its still inthe history, and check the magazine later today and let you know if i find it again.

[Nox]

Tried ebay? get a lot of old matrox cards on there which are PCI and half decent in 2d:)

Nox

[Chewie]

the companys is eSource.co.uk

they have MX4000 in pci for £30.78 (£36.17 inc vat) or
they have FX5200 in pci for £41.68 (£48.97 inc vat)

Both are made by Sparkle.

in deference to Novatech, im not gonna post the whole link, as that could be termed as poaching their business.

esourceuk.co.uk/products.asp?cat=148

[David T]

We don't tend to sell them as there just isn't the demand for them anymore. We have a few matrox PCI cards and I think an ATI 32mb PCI card which may or may not still be available.

We used to sell Sparkle cards quite a while back, I would image esource proberly got old stock/end of line gfx's as almost everyone has phased PCI cards out.

[Nox]

I wouldn't of thought it would be considered 'poaching Novatech's business' if Novatech have decided not to continue that item type, but obviously yu would need to use some common sense. Someone might be able to clarify a little?

Nox

[David T]

I don't have a problem with links to other retailers on here as it IS a public forum, and also if it helps resolve a problem.
If it can be kept it to a minimum though that would be nice 8)

[MadnessRed]

I have a similar but different problem.

My motherboard only supports pci and pci express x 8, not pci-ex16

I want a powerful gfx card that will run most games and also aero interface

if you have any idea please let me know.

or am i going to have 2 buy a new motherboard?

[djgandy]

PCI-E is backwards compatible. Don't worry about PCI-E x16 if you have x8. It will run fine!

[Taxation]

and not alot of performance difference between pci-e X8 and pci-e X16. Saw an article on tomshardware about it. Nvidia suffered more than ATI in that test

[djgandy]

and not alot of performance difference between pci-e X8 and pci-e X16. Saw an article on tomshardware about it. Nvidia suffered more than ATI in that test

And we're talking 8800GTX before its going to make a tiny bit of difference.

My asrock board has a PCI-E 4x slot. There are benchmarks around (anandtech i think) which show not even that is fully utilised yet.

[MadnessRed]

I was told the opposite, thanks people.

SO if i but an nvidea geforce 7200 or something around that and put it on a a pci x 8 slots is should work fine?

[djgandy]

I was told the opposite, thanks people.

SO if i but an nvidea geforce 7200 or something around that and put it on a a pci x 8 slots is should work fine?

A 7200 will work fine in a pci-e slot. I'd recommend a better card if you are playing games though. What do you currently have?

[MadnessRed]

i currently have on board intel grpahics.
except i jsut found out its pci-e x 1

_____________________
EMACHINES E4020


3.07 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
16 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache


Motherboard: Intel Corporation D915GAG AAC87709-302
Serial Number: BQAG52609233
Bus Clock: 133 megahertz
BIOS: Intel Corp. AG91510J.15A.0816.2005.0214.1818 02/14/2005


201.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
121.34 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space


502 Megabytes Installed Memory

Slot 'J6H1' has 256 MB (serial number 0xF303C509)
Slot 'J6H2' is Empty
Slot 'J6J1' has 256 MB (serial number 0xF306C505)
Slot 'J6J2' is Empty

2 x PCI slot
1 x PIC Express x16

-_______________________________

What would be the best graphics card for me.

Also what is meant by a Direct x 10 graphics card and what advantages does it have. I may be buying vista in the future so I would like a compatible card


Been looking at this card, would it be worth it?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-512MB-nVidia-8500GT-PCI-Express-16x-Graphics-Card_W0QQitemZ140158897335QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And when i get the money I would like to buy this motherboard bundle though i may notso i would like gfx card that will run fine on my computer like it is.


http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MBB-M2422

[djgandy]

Direct X 10 is what will be required to play games released in the future at the best possible detail levels.

I'd go for that card if I was you. It sounds like you don't play many games, and considering what you currently have it will be 1000x better. It will run vista too.

[MadnessRed]

ok, thankyou.

I don't play many games because none of them will run on my computer. Which is annoying. thanks for your advice

[system7]

MadnessRed, I'd have a look inside your case first. Emachines 4020 or E4020, whichever, usually doesn't have the PCI Express X16 slot fitted.

So you may be looking at Novatech's PCI range:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/products/a908x1y0z1p0s0n0m0

I've used the FX5200, and it's OK at low settings. But you could get a new motherboard.

[MadnessRed]

no

it has pci express x 1 as i said earlier on. You can still put as pci-express x 16 into it, it just wont run as fast. Its like usb 2.0 memory stick put into a usb 1 port wont run as fast.

I have gone onto the e machines customer support page and they say that there is a pci e x 1 port. Though I will check but could you tell me what I am looking for.

Also is it worth getting a direct x 10 compatible GeForce 8 or a Direct x 9 compatible GeForce 7 baring in mind there is around a £15/20 difference

[system7]

I didn't know you could do that! :lol:

This is the Gateway Augsburg 915GV, isn't it:
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/1991/augsburg915gv5lg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Will watch with interest...

[MadnessRed]

yes i think so,

http://supcontent.gateway.com/support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERBD/Intel2/2522272/02.jpg


T PCI Express x1 Connector
V PCI Slots

http://www.ascendtech.us/itemdesc.asp?ic=MB4GWEAUGSBURGF&eq=&Tp=

look on the bottom of that page for the other letters ^

[system7]

That stuff is lifted from Gateway support. :wink:

It's going to be a bit cramped down the bottom of the case, and I don't know if the card would snag the motherboard circuitry here. For sure you lose the locking mechanism.

PCI Express X1 is twice as fast as PCI as I recall. So I guess anything below X1300 or 6200 or perhaps 8500GT is going to avoid bandwidth limitation. But this is new to me! :?

[MadnessRed]

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... NOV-X1555E (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-X1555E)

or

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/gainward-pci-expr ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/gainward-pci-express-7600gs-pcx-graphics-card_W0QQitemZ290163013949QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

what do you think,

or do i keep with intel gma 900

[system7]

You can avoid excessively long links by using Gainward 512MB 7600GS (hyperlink) in your post...LOL

I'd think the bigger 512MB graphics memory might help here. The 7600GS is nicer, but it's a double slot design here, and it definitely won't fit at the bottom of your case. And that bandwidth thing...dunno.

Hey, novatech, you've got the wrong picture on the X1550. That's an AGP in the lead photo. :roll:

[MadnessRed]

also what about this?

GeForce 7300 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GeForce-7300-GS-PCI-Ex-512MB-Turbocache-Nvidia-HDTV_W0QQitemZ280154513797QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[system7]

That looks perfect. Small card too. No rocketship, of course. We like XpertVision. Novatech sell them under their own brand.

[Ben]

You won't fit a PCI-e X16 card into a PCI-e x1 slot. These are 2 completely different sized slots.

PCI-E X16 is a replacement for AGP & PCI-E X1 is a replacement for PCI.

Above the the PCI slots on your picture (marked V) you will see a series of "dots" in a long rectangle. This is more than likely where a PCI-E 16X slot would go.

PCI-E 16X would downgrade to PCIE 8X, but you would have a hard job getting it to fit in the X1 slot. :(

[system7]

PCI-E 16X would downgrade to PCIE 8X, but you would have a hard job getting it to fit in the X1 slot. :(

****, it would have been nice if it worked... :lol:


It is not possible to place a physically larger PCIe card (e.g. a 16x sized card) into a smaller slot, even though the two would be signal-compatible if it were possible.

[MadnessRed]

yh it would.

im getting someone else's graphics card for the time being as he has a few spare. it'll be either pci or pci e so ill let you know how that goes.

thanks for the help

would it be possible to fit a pci-e x16 port onto my motherboard so that I could use a pcie16 graphics card

[Jonny2Bad]

No you have too buy a new mobo if there is no existing pci x16 slots

[system7]

And this Asrock Conroe1333-d667 R2.0 945gc is a very impressive suitable replacement motherboard with a PCI Express X16 slot:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?ASR-1333

Add a couple of DDR2-667 RAM sticks, which I hope are compatible, and Novatech will change them if they're not:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?RAM-67%2F512

You've got a Pentium 519, which will do for now, but that motherboard will overclock cheap Core 2 Duo's like you wouldn't believe. Unfortunately, you can only internet activate a retail copy of OEM Windows XP Home with the eMachines COA in the case of a failed original motherboard. So you'll have to consider that.

[MadnessRed]

ive been looking at motherboards and getting a replacement. Can you jsu tlet me know if there is anything i have missed out

Case - ATX for new Mboard.
Motherboard (Includes sound card)
CPU - LGA775 - Pentium 4 - Keep existing
Graphics Card - PIC-E 16 grpahics card
RAM - PC2-3200, PC2-4300, PC2-5300 - whatever to fit motherboard
HDD - SATA - Keep exiting
CD/DVD Drive - Keep existing
PSU - New 600 watt


Midi Atx Case (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?JEA-PHOO2#)
NVidea Nforce 650i SLi Motherboard (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MSI-P6NSFI)
CPU Intel Pentium 4 519, 3.06GHz (http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SL8PN)
GeForce 7200GS Turbo, 512mb PCI Express Graphics Card (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/512MB-GEFORE-7200GS-PCI-EXPRESS-GRAPHICS-CARD-DVI-TVOUT_W0QQitemZ140159577824QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3762 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
DDR II SDRAM, PC2-3200, PC2-4300 or PC2-5300 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1GB-DDR2-PC2-5300-667-DDR2-667-MEMORY-RAM-HP-Dell-in-UK_W0QQitemZ140159840712QQihZ004QQcategoryZ172QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
250GB, 7,200 RPM Serial ATA Hard Disk Drive
16x multi-format dual layer DVD+/-RW optical drive
600 watt PSU (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-PSU600)

If there is anything missing from that or it wont work lease let me know.[/url]

[system7]

Oh, I was hoping you were going to visit Porchester, site of the finest Roman Fort in Northern Europe, and upgrade that ol' eMachines... :lol:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1355/moddedemachinesql5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Now, my man, I've got to pick a small hole in your plan here. That is a LOT of expense to go to to fit a modest graphics card like a 7200GS Turbo Cache. Serious gaming starts with a 7600GT upwards. 8)

Useful graphic card comparison here:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html

[djgandy]

yeah. This upgrade is pointless if you are sticking a 7200 in.

[MadnessRed]

What type of card should i be looking at?

If im spending more I would quite like an SLi card

thanks

[JDowdall]

SLI is overrated and doesnt give reasonable performance scaling oh a different psu 2 the novatech one will be in order as they r 2 put it nicely a pile of poo

[MadnessRed]

ok, so i need to get a different graphics car, and a different psu

where can i get a different psu and whats wrong with the novatech ones?

[MadnessRed]

OK, I have got a new updated product list, any comments?

Case - ATX for new Mboard.
Motherboard (Includes sound card)
CPU - LGA775 - Pentium 4 - Keep existing
Graphics Card - PIC-E 16 grpahics card Geforce 8 series
RAM - PC2-3200, PC2-4300, PC2-5300 - whatever to fit motherboard
HDD - SATA - Keep exiting
CD/DVD Drive - Keep existing
PSU - New 600 watt from Amazon


Midi Atx Case (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?JEA-PHOO2#)
NVidea Nforce 650i SLi Motherboard (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MSI-P6NSFI)
Xpertvision 512MB GeForce 8500GT Super SLI PCI-E (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xpertvision-512MB-GeForce-8500GT-Super/dp/B000RHYTL2/ref=sr_1_2/202-0005967-2599061?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1190926399&sr=1-2)
800mhz 240pin 1024mb Pc6400 Ddr2 Ram Dimm 1.8v (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?RAM-80/1GB)
Colors 600W Gold 12Cm Silent Atx PSU (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colors-600W-Silent-Power-Supply/dp/B000KGYMGW/ref=sr_1_1/202-0005967-2599061?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1190926094&sr=1-1)

CPU Intel Pentium 4 519, 3.06GHz (http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SL8PN)
250GB, 7,200 RPM Serial ATA Hard Disk Drive (http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/sata/st3250823as.html)
Samsung TS H552B - Disk drive - DVD±RW (+R double layer) - 16x/12x - IDE - internal - 5.25"

If there is anything missing from that or it wont work lease let me know.

[Jonny2Bad]

If its gaming performance your after i wouldnt go with an 8500 at all for that price range ati beat those cards without blinking!!

[system7]

I can't guarantee this, but experience shows that the eMachines 300W supply will support up to X1650PRO and 7600GS and 8500GT, provided you don't overload the machine with extra drives etc.

Seriously, I would get something like a £35 Novatech 7300GT (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-73GT) for now, along with that Asrock motherboard/memory combo I mentioned, to replace the original. And use your eMachines parts for the rest.

You'll be able to play quite a few games quite well at lower settings.

Later you can upgrade the power supply, graphics and maybe processor. I make that a reasonable £100 upgrade for stage one. The only other affordable possibility is to find an Intel 915 chipset motherboard with a slot, which should work with your eMachines software and memory. But they are rare, unless you can find one on eBay. :?

[MadnessRed]

To be fair I wouldn't mind paying the extra £2 pound for the 8500 card as that s the only difference if your 7300 is £35. Also the 8500 is Direct X 10 compatible. Another thing is when I do my computer I want to do it all in 1 go. Also I was told for this upgrade a minimum of 500 watts. I'll put prices below rounded to the nearest pound.

£40 Midi Atx Case
£67 NVidea Nforce 650i SLi Motherboard
£37 Xpertvision 512MB GeForce 8500GT Super SLI PCI-E
£26 800mhz 240pin 1024mb Pc6400 Ddr2 Ram Dimm 1.8v
£20 Colors 600W Gold 12Cm Silent Atx PSU
£3 Neon 80mm Internal Case Fan

£193 - Total

Whilst I wouldnt mind taking a bit of the price of that motherboard the one you linked

[system7]

I would fancy a quality Nexus or Enermax 400W PSU to run all but the very hottest graphics cards. OK, perhaps not X1950Pro upwards, but you have to balance components...

This is one of the few sites that sensibly discuss power consumption in graphics cards reviews:http://techreport.com/gpu/ Very educational. :)

[MadnessRed]

kk thanks, though i think playing it safe with 600 watts is better as apparently the comp only take what it needs and if in several years time i need to upgrade again i will have enough power.

Also is ATI crossfire the equivalent of nVidia SLi

Also what does SLi give is it just twice the memory (and 1/2 the speed [SLi takes it down to pcie8 apparently])

[djgandy]

Unless you are buying 8800 GTX's you don't need SLI. Same applies to 600 watt power supplies.

[MadnessRed]

OK, thanks, and what is ATI Crossfire?

[MadnessRed]

I have changed it a bit now

£40 Midi ATX Case
£59 Intel P35 Motherboard
£21 Xpertvision 256MB Radeon X1550 PCI-E
£23 667mhz 240pin 1024mb Pc6400 Ddr2 Ram Dimm 1.8v
£20 Colors 600W Gold 12Cm Silent ATX PSU (Thanks for the advice on getting a lower powered one but this one is reduced and is about £2 more expensive than the 480watt one)
£3 Neon 80mm Internal Case Fan

£166 - Total

Midi ATX Case (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?JEA-PHOO2#)
Intel P35 Motherboard (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MSI-P35NF)
Xpertvision 256MB Radeon X1550 PCI-E (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xpertvision-256MB-Radeon-X1550-PCI-E/dp/B000OIQ5V6/ref=sr_1_1/203-9717443-2214365?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1191076749&sr=1-1)
667mhz 240pin 1024mb Pc5400 Ddr2 Ram Dimm 1.8v (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?RAM-67%2F1GB)
Colors 600W Gold 12Cm Silent ATX PSU (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colors-600W-Silent-Power-Supply/dp/B000KGYMGW/ref=sr_1_1/202-0005967-2599061?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1190926094&sr=1-1)

[system7]

MadnessRed, I am trying to save you from yourself here. I don't want you buying an unreliable cheapie power supply or disappointing graphics. This forum is littered with threads about problems with inadequate power supplies and cooling.

Nexus 400W Silent PSU (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NEX-PSUS40) £49 A very nice unit capable of driving even higher spec graphics.
AsrockConroe1333-d667 R2.0 945gc Motherboard (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?ASR-1333) £40. Only 2 DIMM slots, so decide how much memory you'll need now. 2X 512MB for XP, 2X 1GB for Vista. mATX size.
2x 512mb of DDR2-667 Memory (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?RAM-67%2F512) £31. 2 DIMMS for faster Dual-Channel operation.
Novatech 256MB 8600GT Graphics (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-86GT) £70. DX10, SLI compatible. I see the DX10 cards have come down in price, so can be recommended over the equivalent DX9 7600GT now. Novatech's XpertVision is a particularly cool running overclockable design.

That's going to be about 4 times faster than what you're proposing, and a completely reliable, upgradeable modern spec. £190 Total. I expect you already have a casefan in your eMachines case, which is more solid and better quality than Jeantech's offerings. You will need some cable ties and careful routing of cables to get good airflow if you don't have a spare drive bay. But it can be done. You will also want some fresh heatsink paste.

[MadnessRed]

Here (http://madnessred.hyperphp.com/screenshots/thumbnails.php?album=5) is an image gallery with all the pics I took, I am quite confused by this.

Img tag doesn't work, click this link instead. (http://madnessred.hyperphp.com/screenshots/albums/userpics/10001/S5022867.JPG)

Could someone please explain, i have also made a small diagram of what I think is there

Img tag doesn't work, click this link instead. (http://madnessred.hyperphp.com/screenshots/albums/userpics/10001/Comp.jpg)

[Jonny2Bad]

If you like gaming the 8600 is a waste of £70 fps will be terrible! Dont get sucked in to the dx10 hype just because a card is dx10 it doesnt make it a fast card for gaming!!
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/vg ... e,230.html (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/vga-charts/3dmark06-v1-0-2-hdr-sm3-0-score,230.html)
Always worth a look at to see how thay all perform!!

[Jonny2Bad]

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/graphics- ... 29616.html (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/graphics-video-budget,review-29616.html)
Or this to help!!

[system7]

My Virgin internet is SO messed up tonight...:evil: Nice Pictures, anyway. See you have a spare drive bay to tuck away any excess wiring from a new PSU. The graphics is on the chip with a heatsink, called a North Bridge.

Have a little reread of this thread tonight, MadnessREd. What I'm suggesting is that you upgrade your eMachines to get a fast PCI Express graphics slot. That means a new motherboard and newer memory type, and 2X 512MB is a realistic minimum for gaming in XP. That's £70 alone. But it's a fun thing to do.

Now if you just want a £40 8500GT card, you'll probably be able to keep your eMachines 300W power supply. If you want faster graphics, which draw more power, a power supply upgrade is recommended. That Nexus is possibly a more expensive option, and a Hiper 400W will do. But you do get what you pay for, and us old hands value a stable system. :)

I very deliberately and precisely stated the software situation earlier. You will need a copy of OEM Windows XP to install, since the Asrock 945 is a different chipset.

[Jonny2Bad]

Jeez dont mess about with a nexus £49 400w psu when you could have this http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... l?TT-W0134 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?TT-W0134)
the ram would be better going for 2g of corsair value ram at £52 http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... CSR-VS662G (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?CSR-VS662G)
And again sorry system7 but i wouldnt recomend an 8400 8500 8600 for anything more than a media centre pc for better gaming in that price range the ati midrange cards offer much better performance than any of the low end dx10 cards!!

[system7]

Jonny2Bad, I enjoy a RANT as much as the next man. But I stand by what I say about the 8600GT: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/graphics-video-budget,review-29616-2.html

Seems to me NVidia have quickened the drivers to push it into recommended territory. And I say this as a 7600GT owner.

And MadnessRed has NO NEED for 550W here. The Nexus is the quietest PSU around.

Reasons I wouldn't buy ATI cards:
1) Linux support is traditionally hopeless. Yeah, I know, they are working on it.
2) They draw more power at an equivalent performance level.
3) Flaky performance with VIA chipsets.
4) Generally Flaky Windows drivers.

Game On!!! :lol:

[Jonny2Bad]

But it's only 400 when Tt is a far better option at over 500w(for future proofing), and yes the ati cards maybe all you say but they still out perform a 8600, I'm not ranting my friend just pointing out that maybe there are better options available for the money than you have suggested, I think if you had gone to the next page on your link for less than £15 more is a far better performer in the x1950, as again your suggestion of ram for a small amount more he could get 2gig of branded ram with regular good timings. This is the point of a forum for us all to put our views across, I feel for a very small price increase there is a whole heap of performance to be gained money well spent in an upgrade rather than a machine that will need more money spent on it in 6 months time to keep up with a half decent game!!

[system7]

Respect, Jonny2Bad. The X1950PRO is a card I've been recommending for a long time. But prices change, and my reservation about it is its power consumption.

I've been very conscious of the budget here, and I happen to know that eMachines case isn't too well ventilated.

Now, back ON-TOPIC. That Asrock is a bit bigger than I thought and will need a couple of extra motherboard standoffs, taking it up to 8. Available at Maplin in the PC Screws bag, and doubtless at Novatech too. You may not often need a couple of motherboard standoffs, but when you do, you need them BADLY... :D

[Jonny2Bad]

Budget is something that can be broken when it it seriously required but what i have proposed is only a few £'s more for so much more!! The psu is a no brainer i had a 400w psu over 2 years ago no doubt its a great psu but the Tt is also a great performer which will run 2 gpu's in the future if need be for the same price. As for the emachines case a new case would cost anything from £21 upwards yes an additional cost but 1 that can be accounted for in the next month or so maybe!

[system7]

I wish I had a better graphics card. It greatly annoys me that I can't run Tomb Raider Legend in all it's 38DD gorgeousness... :wink:

But, if I understand correctly, MadnessRed merely wants a little more OOMPH in WORMS... :lol:

[Jonny2Bad]

Wow in worms heh, well surley anything from onboard gfx up will do lol!! Sorry i was under the impression that we were helping some1 with a real gaming machine for real games lol. Well I think the slightly more expensive option is the most sensible if the money is to be spent at all even if it is just for worms, might even purchase a copy of css or bf2142 to really test it out.

[system7]

You and I really ought to shut up, Jonny2Bad.

Worms is a great game. Remember when you shoot your own team...they scream "NUTTER!!!" :lol:

[Jonny2Bad]

Totally agree my friend time for some shut eye!! Yes kinda remember lol.
Good chatting with ya none the less!!

[djgandy]

MadnessRed, I am trying to save you from yourself here. I don't want you buying an unreliable cheapie power supply or disappointing graphics. This forum is littered with threads about problems with inadequate power supplies and cooling.

Nexus 400W Silent PSU (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NEX-PSUS40) £49 A very nice unit capable of driving even higher spec graphics.
AsrockConroe1333-d667 R2.0 945gc Motherboard (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?ASR-1333) £40. Only 2 DIMM slots, so decide how much memory you'll need now. 2X 512MB for XP, 2X 1GB for Vista. mATX size.
2x 512mb of DDR2-667 Memory (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?RAM-67%2F512) £31. 2 DIMMS for faster Dual-Channel operation.
Novatech 256MB 8600GT Graphics (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-86GT) £70. DX10, SLI compatible. I see the DX10 cards have come down in price, so can be recommended over the equivalent DX9 7600GT now. Novatech's XpertVision is a particularly cool running overclockable design.

That's going to be about 4 times faster than what you're proposing, and a completely reliable, upgradeable modern spec. £190 Total. I expect you already have a casefan in your eMachines case, which is more solid and better quality than Jeantech's offerings. You will need some cable ties and careful routing of cables to get good airflow if you don't have a spare drive bay. But it can be done. You will also want some fresh heatsink paste.

Get the hiper 350watt psu. It will outperform that 600 generic and wont blow all your components up.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?HYP-4S350 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?HYP-4S350)
You don't need 500 watt and spending £50 on a psu is pointless for such a low end system.

You don't want 2 x 512 dimms. You'd be much better off spending that £10 on a faster processor. Dual channel is a waste of time. Speed increase is tiny and faster memory chips would be a better buy. The difference is tiny anyway, unless you are a benchmark freak who cares about 1%. Better off having more ram than faster ram. Get 1GB modules. 512's are a waste of space and they'll be useless in the future because they are so small.

If you want super cheap memory get
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... M-80%2F1GB (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?RAM-80%2F1GB)
If you look around the net you can get 2GB of OCZ DDR2-800 for £43 though.

Don't really know about the graphics card. I'd go for the cheapest 8600GT, but thats because it accelerates x264 decoding. It'll play all the latest games. It won't play them at really high resolution, but then i doubt you have a 22 inch screen.

[MadnessRed]

Hi, what I was trying to point out was this

I can't work IMG tag for some reason (http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd14/MadnessRed/Comp/S5022863a.jpg?t=1191258444)

I don't want to buy a new motherboard if i can salvage a pci-e out of that. it says PCI- Express 1 x 16 Card.

But the little thing that holds the card isn't there. however there are two screw holes to screw one into there. In theory all I need to buy is new graphics card and a carrier. I might look into ram and a Intel dual core depending on how much money I have at the time.

Dx10, I run dual boot XP and Ubuntu, I have no need for Dx10 as max XP can do is Dx9.0c

Couple of questions, can I put my Micro ATX motherboard into an ATX case? I don't think I can but I might as well ask.

[djgandy]

If you can find somewhere to buy the riser and solder it onto those pins then yes. Good luck with that though ;)

[MadnessRed]

can i not just use the two screw holes

[djgandy]

I doubt. Youll need a constant connection to all pins. I don't know what the bottom of a pci-e slot looks like though, nor do i know where you can buy them.

[MadnessRed]

http://www2.multithread.co.uk/mtcshop/images/linitx.com/products/1U_PCI_Express_X16_Riser_Card_-_Right_Facing_main.jpg

its about £10/15

http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10537

http://www2.multithread.co.uk/mtcshop/images/linitx.com/products/PCI_Express_X16_1U_Riser_Card_main.jpg

I geuss/hope you can just screw it in hole for hole

[system7]

What you have in the above picture is called a RISER CARD. It is designed to fit an expansion card sideways in a cramped low profile office type case. But it presupposes a PCI Express x16 slot is fitted in the case.

Not only have eMachines not fitted the PCI Express x16 socket, but they have missed out the capacitors that would make it stable. Because it has passed through a solder bath, the fitting holes are now full of solder. I think even The Borg from Star Trek would have trouble sucking that solder out without burning the motherboard... :lol:

[MadnessRed]

Why would eMachines do that, what was the point?

All they have done is destroy part of MY motherboard!!!!!



Word of advice to anyone out there, do not get eMachines, this is jsut the latest of problems with this computer. Including that the backup dvd doesn't include drivers so if you need to backup the computer you have no drivers!!!!
The os it included is also broken and eMachines told me that they had removed part of it!!!!! Why do they do that, the have formatted XP so thatit wont allow partitioning!!!!!

The only reason I managed to get Ubuntu on was that the disk they gave me was faulty I can't even reformat the HDD properly

[MadnessRed]

Anyway, how about this Graphics Card?


nVidia 256MB GeForce 8600GT (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xpertvision-256MB-GeForce-8600GT-2XDVI/dp/B000PL7PL6/ref=pd_sbs_ce_4/202-0641233-3531065?ie=UTF8&qid=1190926399&sr=1-2)


Couldn't I just screw it down as there are the wholes to do that? What is the part I'd be looking for called? Is it a carrier.

Also what about this

1U PCI Express X1 to X16 Riser Card (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11680)

Could I use that to put a PCI E 16 Graphics card into a PCI E x 1 slot?

(Yay a complete circle we're back where we started, PCI Express 16 into PCI Express 1 slot)

And also I just found this information on my motherboard and if you look at 'F' on the 2nd table it clearly says there is a PCI Express x 16

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/ag/ag_con.htm

[system7]

That's a bit HARSH about eMachines! :)

Let's start by fixing that signature of yours:

Try just enclosing the hyperlink in the url and /url brackets, and lose the size spec, like this:

http://madnessred.000webhost.org/img/logo.png

Drivers HERE. (http://support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERBD/Intel2/WMEOEMD915GVAGLG3/WMEOEMD915GVAGLG3nv.shtml)

You'll have Novatech tearing their hair out, if you keep finding cheaper places to buy an 8600GT card. Nice find. :)

[MadnessRed]

OK thanks for the links.


http://madnessred.000webhost.org/img/logo.png

its just that leaves the image too big, could I use


http://madnessred.000webhost.org/img/logo.png

I don't understand what you mean by the (url) tag how that is to do with the (img) tag.

[djgandy]

I have no idea how a PCI-E 1x slot will perform with that card. Not to say you can't run it but you could possibly end up with awful performance.

I've never seen any tests of the effects on bus speed so it's hard to say.

That's amazingly cheap though. Think i might have to order one :O

[system7]

My bad, MadnessRed, I mant img and /img. Your sig is just too big I reckon.

That motherboard of yours was made just at the transistion before Gateway took over eMachines, so I think there might be some hardware differences compared to the Gateway board. Hence the hopeless support.

Anyway, I think you are making good progress here. I have a question for djgandy. Are you sure the Hiper 4S350 has enough legs for that 8600GT card? I've got a Hiper 4S425 that I use in my less critical second machine, so I know they are built to a price... :?

[djgandy]

My bad, MadnessRed, I mant img and /img. Your sig is just too big I reckon.

That motherboard of yours was made just at the transistion before Gateway took over eMachines, so I think there might be some hardware differences compared to the Gateway board. Hence the hopeless support.

Anyway, I think you are making good progress here. I have a question for djgandy. Are you sure the Hiper 4S350 has enough legs for that 8600GT card? I've got a Hiper 4S425 that I use in my less critical second machine, so I know they are built to a price... :?

I've got the old 350 and I'm running a lot more hardware than an emachines would have. The newer ones have slightly higher power output too.

Also PC's don't use as much power as some people make out.
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1086&pageID=3336
http://techreport.com/articles.x/7295/24
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/486/15/

With SLI and the demand for power supplies for it, PSU suppliers have also managed to catch out the ordinary consumer and sell them power supplies they simply don't need. 430Watt is a lot of power.

The only reason you'd need a big power supply is for overclocking. Since power scaling is non linear, if you are pushing the volts up you could add quite a bit more draw on the system. Also for big cards, like 8800's. Mid range cards don't really use a lot of power though.

[system7]

Thanks, djgandy.

MadnessRed, seems like you've got enough to be going on with here.

Asrock 945 Mobo.
Single stick of DDR2-667 1GB memory, for now. Dual-channel later.
7300GT graphics and existing 300W PSU.

Or if you fancy something faster:
Hiper 350W PSU.
8600GT graphics.

Later, you can play with quieter fans and faster processor and stuff, but you will need an OEM copy of Windows XP Home to tie it all together. Happy Gaming. Keep us updated. 8)

[MadnessRed]

how much are those parts?

I think Ill go for the 256MB GeForce 8600GT, With the 1gb RAM and the motherboard you said if

It has/is

ATX
SATA HDD connection
IDE (I think DVD Connection)
Min 4 USB 3 in back (min) 1 in front (min)
6 Channel Sound (min)
2 PCI Slots (min)
1 PCI Express 16 Slot (min)
below £40

[system7]

Didn't we discuss the motherboard earlier?
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?ASR-1333

It'll work. :D

[MadnessRed]

There must be a way of getting back that PCI Express 16 slot. Every document I have read regarding my mobo says that it should have a PCI Express 16 port? where is it?

ok thanks can you just check it is compatible with below, can you put a SATA HDD into a SATA 3 port? And is IDE the Same as ATA?

OK, information on my current computer, any I have starred I would like to keep


*CPU
LGA775

RAM - Need ot get more anyway but preferably 4 slots on board.
DDR 400mhz

*CD/DVD Drive
IDE

(*)PSU - If I have to get a new one I will
300 Watt ATX

*Hard Disk
SATA


*Media Reader
USB 1.1

Case
mATX
[/list]

[MadnessRed]

Update, Just bought an Motherboard

This one (http://www2.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=IP-95&fMTYPE=LGA775)

For a grand total of £6.98

I'm quite impressed by that. I mean its not the world greatest motherboard but it does what I want and means I now only now need to buy a graphics card.

My old RAM fits plus I can upgrade it to DDR2 at some point.

LGA775 socket so I can upgrade processor some time too.

[Jonny2Bad]

Good work buddy, what a bargin!!!

[MadnessRed]

yh thats what I though

I have a question though can I mix ram

Memory

* Supports DDR2 533 or DDR 400 Un-buffered Non-ECC memory
* 2 x 184-pin DIMM sockets, support DDR 400 memory up to 2GB (2.5V)
* 2 x 240-pin DIMM sockets, support DDR2 533 memory up to 4GB (1.8V)

can i put ram in both?

so i keep my ddr 400mhz ram and add in extra ddr2 533mhz ram?

[Jonny2Bad]

I doubt it very much even if you could, the faster ram would revert to the slower rams speed, all ram does this when put in with slower module!!

[MadnessRed]

What difference's is there between DDR 400 and DDr2 533?

is it worth getting this or similar?

2gb module (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1x2GB-DDR2-PC-4300-533-mhz-memory-240-Pin-DIMM_W0QQitemZ220155993492QQihZ012QQcategoryZ172QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


or should I just get 1gb?

[Jonny2Bad]

The ddr2 533 will be faster but not by loads the ddr400 will be more expensive to buy so if your upgrading anyway may as well get the ddr2 100% i wouldnt go for the 2g stick but defo go for 2x 1g sticks!!

[MadnessRed]

will I have any need of more than 2gb?

[Jonny2Bad]

No I myself have 2g, if your running a high powered gaming system with vista then maybe but only maybe would you need to upgrade to 4g

[MadnessRed]

ok, just out of interest how important is the motherboard in terms or computer speed.?

I mean will my new motherboard be a great deal slower than the asrock that was suggested?

[Jonny2Bad]

No it wont be any different than the asrock, obviously the more you spend the better performance you get but most modestly priced mobo's are roughly the same in performance

[MadnessRed]

So i got a good deal then?

Also is it possible to put a Micro ATX motherboard in the Jeantech case I suggested a while ago?

Also could I put a window on the side of my case, (I wanna see my new parts)

[Jonny2Bad]

Probably not familiar with the case in question but im sure it'll be fine.

[MadnessRed]

And is it possible to put a window onto my existing case instead?

Looking at the following gfx cards

All from eBay, some are buy now, others on auction. Ill remove them when I notice the bids getting too high.


XFX GeForce 7950GT 512MB DDR3 570M Extreme Edition (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XFX-GeForce-7950GT-512MB-DDR3-570M-Extreme-Edition_W0QQitemZ260166035990QQihZ016QQcategoryZ37 62QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (appears to take up slot above)

Nvidia 8500GT GFX 512mb DDR2 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nvidia-8500GT-GFX-512mb-DDR2-TV-out-DVI-VGA_W0QQitemZ140163570089QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3762QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (Double thickness thingy)

ATI RADEON X1900XT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ATI-RADEON-X1900XT_W0QQitemZ260166076971QQihZ016QQcategoryZ37 62QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512mb (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Connect3D-ATI-Radeon-X1950-Pro-512mb-PCI-Express_W0QQitemZ270170782618QQihZ017QQcategoryZ37 62QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (Very good card but a small fault known)

RADEON™ X1600 PRO 512MB (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sapphire-RADEON-X1600-PRO-512-MB-PCI-Express-Gra_W0QQitemZ200157987663QQihZ010QQcategoryZ3762QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Geforce 8500 GT 256 DDR2 Memory (512 MB) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Geforce-8500-GT-PCi-Express-256-DDR2-Memory-512-MB_W0QQitemZ220156426564QQihZ012QQcategoryZ3762QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

3D RADEON X1800XT, (512 MB) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CONNECT-3D-RADEON-X1800XT-512-MB-PCI-E-Graphics_W0QQitemZ110175982962QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3 762QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[MadnessRed]

OK, I have narrowed down to 2 cards I am thinking about

ATi Radeon X1650
nVidia GeForce 7600 GT

assuming the following prices which is best?

X1650 256mb for £30
X1650 512mb for £40
7600GT 256mb for £40

which of those would you recommend? ATM is am think the X1650 512mb one.

[JDowdall]

it depends if the x1650 512 is ddr 2 or ddr3 but i think the x1650's just beat the 7600gt either way unless they r the pro models

[MadnessRed]

Which of these card would you recommend getting?

Baring in mind, Pentium 4, upgrading to Core 2 a some point and 2gb DDR 2 RAM


nVidia GeForce 7900 GS 256mb (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GEFORCE-7900GS-256MBsli-DDR3-PCI-E-TESTED-SPARES-REPAIR_W0QQitemZ110178729569QQihZ001QQcategoryZ376 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) £50.58

nVidia GeForce 8500 GT 256mb (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MSI-NX-8500GT-TD256E-256MB-DDR2-HDTV-READY-TV-OUT-PCI-E_W0QQitemZ280162042181QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3762QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) £36.90

nVidia GeForce 8500 GT 256mb (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8500GT-256MB-nVidia-GeForce-PCI-E-SLI-VIDEO-PCIE-8500_W0QQitemZ230180356164QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) £41.90

nVidia GeForce 8500 GT 512mb (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/X-VISION-512MB-GeForce-8500GT-SUPER-PCI-E-SLI-Card_W0QQitemZ280162041834QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) £46.90

ATi Radeon HD2600 256mb (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xpertvision-256MB-Radeon-HD2600-PCI-E/dp/B000SYYT8M/ref=sr_1_2/203-8576644-1756754?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1192193958&sr=1-2) £37.23

ATi Radeon HD2600 512mb (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sapphire-Radeon-HD-2600-PRO-512MB-DDR-PCI-E-Dual-DVI-I_W0QQitemZ280161749840QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3762QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) £55.90

If possible could you let me know before 17th October.

Thanks