My New Build

[bezza]

Hi guys

Would appreciate your help on a new build of mine (been about 6 years since I built a complete machine). Am having particular worries about the CPU cooler.

Spec I have decided on so far is:

CPU - Q6600
Mobo - Asus P5KC
Ram - 2 x 2GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC6400
Case - Antec P182 (with some extra Nexus fans)
GPU - HIS XT3870 ICE3 512MB
HDD1 - WD Raptor 150GB 10k rpm (with Nexus DiskTwin mounts)
HDD2 - Seagate Barracuda 500GB 32MB Cache
PSU - Hiper Type-R 580w (in existing machine)
O/S - Will run XP and Vista Ultimate side-by-side, possibly 64-bit Vista.

How does that sound for compatability? Will PSU be ok with all that (may upgrade in about 6 months)?

In terms of CPU cooler, was thinking of the Thermaltake Blue Orb II as it seems pretty quiet (sound is something of an issue) and water cooling isn't really my thing. However, the thing that bothers me is weight as I'm always moving house! Any thoughts on a better cooler or is that one pitched about right?

Final point, would like to get all stuff from Novatech as always!

Thanks for your help.

[matz]

if sounds an issue check out the thermalright ultra 120 extreme but sadly novatech dont sell it :( TT

P.S that psu will be fine :) The board im not use to, if your looking for an easy bios that overclocks go for P35 neo2 FR by MSI. in my own opoioin if you are going to upgrade anything like the graphics card if its going to be a 9800gx2 this will not boot due to it needing 600w psu min.

instead of the ATI why not 9800GTX or is that pushing your money abit further?
if you did get the 9800GTX and need to cut back on others, MSI P35 Neo2 FR

CPU coolers :
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?TT-TYP120 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?TT-TYP120)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... AC-FREEZ7P (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?AC-FREEZ7P)

if your interested in overclocking and do not have a budget you go the TT ultra 120 extreme, if not the frezzer pro or the TT from novatech will do the trick :)

[wuyanxu]

motherboard choice is fine, it's DDR3 compatible, so you can upgrade to DDR3 later.

superb choice on the case, if you want silent, you might want to change the top fan to Nexus, or you'll hear the top fan. (unless you put the case on your desk, in which case, you will want a silent front fan)

no need for the Nexus disk mount, install the disk on the bottom chamber, with a fan in the middle for wind tunnel effect, it will cool the Raptor enough. and it'd be silent.

im a bit concerned about the Hiper Type-R's modular cable mounting mechanics. P182 case have limited space down there, if you are going to (like i suggested) put keep the Antec fan in the bottom chamber, you WILL have trouble with the extra long mounting mechanics of the Type-R. it will power your 3870 machine, but not sure about headroom.

CPU cooler: the Arctic Freezer 7 Pro matz suggested is the best performance/value cooler on the market, but i really don't know about the noise, im sorry. the Tt big tycoon can be silent if you change the fan to a Nexus fan.

and finally, a bit of warning, 3870 is a mid-range. 8800GT will give you better performance if you intend to game. 9800GTX is a waste of money, it's the same as 8800GTS 512MB.

[matz]

if the 8800GT is abit steep in cash, 9600GT :)

evga and bfg are some of the best graphics card makers due to there warrenty also stepup is the reason i went with evga

[djgandy]

Dump the raptor and seagate and get two of these. http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... SAM-S750S2 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAM-S750S2)

[matz]

Dump the raptor and seagate and get two of these. http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... SAM-S750S2 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAM-S750S2)
they can just perform just as good worth it in my opoion :mrgreen:

[Bert]

I can vouch for the P5KC, it's a good board and hasn't failed me so far. Didn't have to upgrade the bios for it to deal with the Q6600 I installed.

Haven't tried overclocking yet, but I've heard of people getting good results.

[wuyanxu]

I can vouch for the P5KC, it's a good board and hasn't failed me so far. Didn't have to upgrade the bios for it to deal with the Q6600 I installed.

Haven't tried overclocking yet, but I've heard of people getting good results.
my friend got 400FSB easily using his E2140. quite like the voltage damper feature on it, reduces the vdroop to minimal.

[Bert]

Will have to have a look once I've check my HSF. I'm getting odd readings on Coretemp, not sure if it might have come unseated slightly.

Think I'll try for a 3.0Ghz stable and leave her there :)

[bezza]

Cheers guys, appreciate the thoughts/help. Apologies for the rambling posts but I have a habit of thinking out loud.

Hyper PSU - I've had a look at reviews of the Antec case and I saw there were problems with the Type-R in the P180 case. The same people reviewed the P182 and said the PSU problems had gone away owing to the low-profile fan in the bottom compartment. Admittedly they didn't mention the Hiper PSU but since they also didn't say the problem remained, I have assumed it's ok. In terms of cable length, I had a look at the position of the power clips on the mobo and the cable that would be the issue is the 4-pin jobby. However, there seems to be a lot of lenght left in that cable in the case I have now so think it should be ok. Will collect instore and take that cable with me to check. Can get an extension thing if there are problems? Or am I missing the point there.

CPU Cooler - I read the Arctic Freezer CPU coolers were a bit noisy. Can anyone vouch for that? Also, does anyone have experience with the Blue Orb in terms of weight? Overclocking scares me so isn't something I'm looking at doing right now but perhaps in the future. It's noise that's the big thing.

GPU - This has been a tough one to decide on as I think the total kit listed is coming in at about £850 which is already a little over budget. Can't really stretch it more than that I'm afraid and waiting one more pay day isn't really possible as my existing machine has properly died. To give you an idea of what I'm doing with games, I'm currently playing PES 2008 which is the most graphics intensive game I have. It plays ok on my HIS x1650 XT AGP but is a litle choppy. Figured it was more the CPU (old P4 2.5). I don't play the latest games - don't own crysis or anything like that but that's not to say something won't come along that takes my fancy. Hoping GTA4 comes out on PC eventually but that's it. Do a little bit of video editing and quite a bit of photo stuff. On that basis, and from what I've read on the web, the 3870XT would be ok and kept up with the 8800 cards (ish). Also, like the ICEQ cooler (which I have on my current x1650). It comes down to paying an extra £100 for an extra 5fps I think. Also, if I do get more recent games, can always add a second at a later date (when prices are lower). Are people saying the 3870 is a bad card or just that for an extra £50 you can get something that gives a signficant improvement? I might strech that little further if it's really worth it, I mean not worth spending £850 for something good when you can spend £900 for something spot-on.

MOBO - Somehow like the ASUS boards so wouldn't want the MSI one. It's obviously just their marketing! Thanks though.

HDD - Interesting suggestion there as the main issue I have with the Raptor is noise (would add the nexus mounts to that anyway as only £6 and it all helps). Are you suggesting I raid 2 of them which I something I have no experience of. Will use the computer for music recording, which is where the noise issues come from, and also the need for a fast HDD. Would the 32MB cache cancel that out really?

Nearly there on all this. Just everything has moved on so much in the last few years, especially with multi-core processors and DX10. As I say, appreciate the help.

[Asce]

If your case is big enough, then get the Thermaltake V1. Its a nice solid cooler and its quiet. Plus has a speed controller for the fan

[wuyanxu]

as i understand this is what Hiper Type-R looks like
http://computer-reviews.net/wp-content/uploads/Hiper%20Modular%20580W%20power%20supply.thumbnail. jpg

now, i am pretty sure it won't allow a fan down in the bottom chamber with the p182 case. just look at my Corsair with supplied fan (25mm depth)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/wuyanxu/WyXQuad_BuildLog/DSC016281024x768.jpg


if you mind noise, Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme is the way to go, couple it with a 120mm fan of our choice for silent or performance. the reason im not sure about Tt V1 is that it's not 120mm fan....... :| heard the new version will be though

well 3870 IS ATI's top card, if you prefer ATI, then go for it.
but nVidia offers better performance in Dx10 mode, and it doesn't take as large hit when AA is enabled. DO consider 9600GT or 8800GT both are very good performance for value.

unless you game a LOT, Raptors offer no advantage. the only advantage Raptors offers in comparison to any 500GB+ HDD is the half random access time. it is only barely noticeable in intensive games. so i would say you cannot go wrong with that Samsung at that price. the 32MB cache is just marketing. a 640GB Western Digital with 16MB cache gets about the same performance as the 750GB Samsung.

[bezza]

Thanks wuyanxu and everyone else.

Think this is the plan for now:

1) Change the Raptor/Segate for the 2 Samsung drives. Offers the option to raid at a later date if it takes my fancy or if speed is an issue. Drives should be quieter/cooler overally (saving £30).

2) Use the stock fan on the CPU for the time being and get the Thermalrite Ultra 120 and a 120mm fan from the net sometime soon. Heat on stock fan should be ok as there will be good airflow through the case. I'll take a look at the Thermaltake V1 too (saving £20 for now).

3) Stick with the Hiper PSU and see if it fits with the fan in, otherwise take the fan out and use without. Can think about mounting the drives in a different part of the case if heat is a problem.

4) Get an extra Nexus fan to replace the top fan in the case for noise reasons.

5) Use the extra £50 to push the GPU budget up to £180. That puts us in the budget of a 8800GT 512MB or 8800GTS 512MB. Chuck in an axtra tenner and I can go for a 9800GTX 512MB or 8800GT 1MB. Any thoughts on those 4 cards?

[bezza]

Oh hang on, if I go for an NVidea card, do I not need to change the MOBO?

[djgandy]

You don't need to change the mobo.

Personally for a graphics card I'd pick either...

9600GT
8800GT
8800GTS

I haven't compared performance of each lately, but IIRC they are all between 10% of each other. In terms of price that's not the case.

This 8800GT OC seems to offer decent value. http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/spec ... ?BFG-88GT5 (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?BFG-88GT5)

[wuyanxu]

1. good choice 8)

2. it's up to you. q6600 is pretty hot, but if you are not overclocking for now, stock cooler *should* be enough

3. if you want to take out the fan, be sure to use ducktape or something to block out the holes near the rear of the PSU. that way, the PSU sucks air from the front, offering air flow to the disk drive. for non-Raptors that airflow is more than enough. most people does that. i just can't be bothered to take out the PSU.

4. yep, although if you are sticking with Intel stock cooler, there's little acoustic advantage to this.

5. i would go with GTS 512MB. although both cards (GT OC suggested by djG) is superb, the GT will whine more due to the small fan.

no, no need to change motherboard, Intel motherboard offer better stability and overclocking options than nVidia boards. only go with nVidia if you are 100% sure you want SLi.

[bezza]

Well the stock cooler will only be a temporary measure for a couple of weeks. If Intel are bundling a fan with the CPU, you'd hope it would be up for the job!

My initial thoughts were to go with the GTS. GT OC looked good but one review there said it sounds like a jet taking off so probably a little too loud. Not 100% sure I'll go SLi either so will stick with the Intel board.

And duck tape in the case. £90, looks amazing, but to get it to work efficiently you need duck tape. Only with computers hey! Thanks for the tip there - will see how the PSU fits and then decide what needs to be done.

Right, back in the UK in 3 weeks and will pop to Reading and get all the stuff and have a go at putting it together. Perhaps Lego would be cheaper.

[matz]

Well the stock cooler will only be a temporary measure for a couple of weeks. If Intel are bundling a fan with the CPU, you'd hope it would be up for the job!

My initial thoughts were to go with the GTS. GT OC looked good but one review there said it sounds like a jet taking off so probably a little too loud. Not 100% sure I'll go SLi either so will stick with the Intel board.

And duck tape in the case. £90, looks amazing, but to get it to work efficiently you need duck tape. Only with computers hey! Thanks for the tip there - will see how the PSU fits and then decide what needs to be done.

Right, back in the UK in 3 weeks and will pop to Reading and get all the stuff and have a go at putting it together. Perhaps Lego would be cheaper.

Readings great <-- novatech ownz

[bezza]

Sorry, few more questions in relation the the HDD and Vista.

Firstly, I'll be partitioning the drives and installing XP onto one and Vista 64-bit onto another. With them being SATA drives, I'm guessing I'll need to install the RAID Drivers to get the disks recognised when installing XP. With the motherboard I'll be getting (Asus P5K-C) will that be the case (I'm assuming it's not MOBO dependant but is more to do with the XP install)? Also, will I need to get a USB floppy disk or can it pick up the drivers from the CD or a USB flash drive? Will the same be needed for Vista or does the install recognise the SATA headers/RAID straight up?

Secondly, I'm thinking I might RAID 0 the drives (not that I have any experience of this). Is it easy to set up? Does RAID still work when creating partitions? What is the likelihood of one of the drives failing and causing me loads of problems? Data security isn't such an issue as I do regular backups onto an external harddrive and also keep important stuff (photos/MP3s etc on a third internal drive). Would people recommend RAID?

Finally, Vista related - should I think about adding a 3rd partition and installing Vista 32-bit and 64-bit on different parts or is 64-bit ok to get on with? I'm guessing the drivers for everything I'm getting should be supported and signed ok.

Cheers!

[wuyanxu]

firstly, you cannot RAID after you sets up partitioning. so if you've got 2 hard disk drives, just install 1 in each drive.

finally, 64bit Vista is a lot better supported. so go ahead and install 64bit Vista. there's really no reason to instsall 32bit Vista

[bezza]

Hmm, ok. So when you say you can't RAID after partitioning does that also mean you can't partition after RAIDing?

If I went for 4 x 250GB drives and RAID them (WD Caviar SE16 maybe), would that perhaps be a better option than getting 2 larger drives and not RAIDing?

Any thoughts on the floppy drive would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Chewie]

What are your plans exactly where the RAID array is concerned?

With 4 250's, you could get a RAID 0+1 set going, which would give you a single 500gb drive (logically seen in windows, made up of 2 drives) which has a mirrored back up across the other 2 drives.

[bezza]

With 4 drives I would go for two RAID 0 setups - one pair with XP installed for music recording and one pair with Vista 64 installed for general use and gaming. That way I can have all the space and all the speed. Is that possible?

Will then have a third single drive which I'll partition and use part for storing MP3s and photos and then the other partition as a scratch drive for Cubase/Photoshop etc.

If it is at all possible to partition the RAID drives after, I would like to use one pair for operating systems, each on its own partition and then the other pair as a larger/faster scrath drive. The music recording would really make use of the speed and size as files can get pretty big!

[Chewie]

Should be possible, I've personally never set 2 RAID 0's up across 4 drives, but cant see why it wouldnt be possible.

[bezza]

Just wanted to post a quick update. Got all the stuff delivered this morning (except the case and Vista as they were out of stock so got case elsewhere). Just sitting watching windows update at the moment.

Incase anyone else is looking to use the P182 with a Hiper Type R - the PSU fits fine with the lower fan in place but the 12v P4 cable isn't long enough so you will need an extension cable. Good job there is a Maplin down the road.

Also, gave up on the RAID idea and just intalling onto a Samsung Spinpoint F1 750GB.

[TheMadDutchDude]

Not sure but I will post any way, you stated that you have read that AC Freezer 7 Pro's are quite noisy? Erm.. WRONG :D mine, as is now and with my CPU the way it is.. Idles at around 1000RPM and I can bearly hear it, you only start to hear it when it starts topping 1600+RPM but this only happens when I put my computer under a stress test (which is now completed and doesn't need doing any more by the way!) so, I would recommend if you need a silent computer or if you can get stock from somewhere, go for the ThermalRight 120 Ultra/Extreme as they are the best coolers on the market for a reasonable price, wish I had a full ATX motherboard and case.. I would have one of them CPU coolers right now ;)

[bezza]

Well that probably just goes to show people shouldn't believe half the **** they read on the internet!

I did go with the Ultra 120 Extreme in the end. Got a 120mm Nexus fan on there that seems pretty quiet. Don't know what it's going to sound like for sure as the side isn't on the case yet.

[matz]

Well that probably just goes to show people shouldn't believe half the [CENSORED] they read on the internet!

I did go with the Ultra 120 Extreme in the end. Got a 120mm Nexus fan on there that seems pretty quiet. Don't know what it's going to sound like for sure as the side isn't on the case yet.
when its all on post your temps

[bezza]

Well I'm not convinced with the temp readings I'm getting at the moment. Everything is on the normal settings until I have time to play around. According to the Asus PC Probe utility thing, CPU is idling at 23 and Mobo is between 30 and 32. CPU seems a bit low to me, especially given room temperature at the moment!

If that is all correct, sounds to me like there is some overclocking potential in there! :lol: That's the next thing for me to teach myself. Will be happy to get the CPU running at 3Ghz for now. Seems like there shouldn't be many problems in doing that.

[wuyanxu]

use CoreTemp or RealTemp to see your real temperature.