nForcers failing because of underated power supplies

[Bazzer]

Again we see on this forum nForcer machines failing due to small 300w power supplys. Any chance Novatech will be fitting 450w power supplies as standard?

[Coops]

In order to keep the issue raised with the nforcer centralised if everyone could POST here this would make things easier.

Now firstly, i currently have the nforcers in testing to look at the issue a couple of people have raised and i will post further information once i have it.

The actually nforcer series systems do not actually exceed the PSU specfications and therefore until i have examined this further there is no reason to believe the PSU is actually at fault. There could be many reasons why these systems have done what they have.
In fact when it comes to PSU, wattage is small fry in the great scheme of things. The most important thing is the Amps of the 12v rail followed by the 5v rail followed by the 3.3 volt rail and then the wattage.
Remember a PC power requirement is dynamic and varies greatly depended on current operation.

So anyway this is just to say we are looking at it and certainly if people have particular situations where there system has failed, for instance running certain games or applications then if they let me know i can see if we can try running them as well to reproduce.

What i can say is we have come across a few issues with AMD x2 CPU as a whole and it revolves around software bypassing the Windows API timing and talking directly to the CPU for timing. This causes a problem with certain applications because of the X2 Design.
In order to correct this issue you need to do two things.

The first is update the AMD CPU Driver. This should be done for all X2 Systems but can also be done with all AMD CPU.
Download this here.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content ... usetup.exe (http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/utilities/amdcpusetup.exe)

The second is the Dual Core optimizer. This is specfically for X2 CPU's and helps resolve issues with software that talk directly to CPU for there timings.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content ... /Setup.exe (http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/utilities/Setup.exe)

More when i have it...........................

Best Regards

[prop135]

Fair post Coops

I had already updated the drivers on mine as well as domne the optimizer thing.

The one thing I would say is that although the wattage isn't the important thing if the PSU isn't supplying the amps to the relitive rail to allow for the system to run then the computer can be as dynamic as it wants, when it reaches of more amps and they aint there BSOD

Most PSU's supplied with chassis are not dynamic, they put out the amps as they are and when they run out they run out.

Having said that the replacement sent to me has some type of autosensing on board providing more ampage as required. Of course I ignored this and set it to high for maximum amps :D

No more BSOD (so far) and it has so far proven to be a great system. I even had a quick blat on BF2 (when the wife wasn't looking) and am thinking of getting one as a home gaming box.

Regards

Prop

[Coops]

Yes agreed but the point i was trying to make is that a lot of people go on about watts and in fact AMPS is the key. If your system is pulling more amps than the rail can provide then the system will fail. simply as that.

I think you miss understood my meaning by dynamic. Your system is dynamic not your PSU. Your PSU will always be able and ready to provide the max current per rail as per its spec. But your systems current demand varies based upon the requirements of the hardware at a given moment.

For example your 12v rail on your PSU may be able to provide 20amps total. On the desktop your system may only require 7 amps from your 12v rail. Then you load a game which starts the Nvidia card in to action which then may increase your 12v current load to 15amps. Then when you quit your game your graphics card no longer needs all that power so the current on the 12v rail then reduces back to its required level. Obviously voltages remain what they are. 12v should be 12v plus or minus no more than 10%. The same for 5v and 3.3v

But in short i suppose you summed it up best, once the amps are gone, they are gone. This is very true.

[pallum]

I thought I was the proud owner of a NForcer 4200 untill I tried to boot it up on day 2. The machine takes about 20mins to boot, (it just hangs after the Winfast logo) After resetting dozens of times it will finally boot and then runs like a dream. Next day even worse. I checked the power supply and yes 300watts. All the sites I visited about 7600GT were asking for 350watts as a minimum so I think the supply is underpowered. But, Novatech sent me a new 450 watt supply today (machine only 5 days old) and it has made no difference. The trouble is by this time it won't boot anyway, just keeps shutting down and restarting over and over again. Windows reinstalled, drivers as recommended on this posting, you name it I have done it (I think). If this computer does not boot tomorrow from cold I will be on the phone to arrange to return it and get my money back. I am loosing faith in Novatech and have definatley lost faith in this machine.

[prop135]

Hi Pallum

I know I had a rant but I would like to go on record and say that the nforcer is a good machine (ampage aside)

It sounds like a possible HDD failure setting in, I have had the same problem on both laptops and PC's and every time it has been a hard drive on its way. Try putting in a different HDD if you have one, if it boots then you know what the prob is. (could also be the ribbons either broken or not seated properly)

The other thing you can do is get the guys at Novatech to take a look, everyone I know who has used Novatech in the past has always said great things about them and their customer support, it would be a pity to ditch a good machine at a good price because of a componant failure.

I am sure that one of the resident techs will be able to point you in the right direction if I am wrong about HDDs

hope this helps some

[pallum]

prop135
Apologises to Novatech as they have been very good on the phone but it's still very annoying as I needed this machine and now will be without one for possibly another week.

Novatech are picking the machine up tomorrow (Friday) and assured me they have a very quick turn around so I will give them a try.

You say about the hard drive but when I installed the AMD drivers and opimiser the machine would not get past the initial XP logo without rebooting, it was like it was trapped in a loop, it would have done this forever if I had not got into safe mode and removed these drivers.

The gentleman I spoke to this lunch time seemed to think it might be the CPU, we will see.

Has the 450 watt power supply cured your problem?

I'm glad I changed the power supply though, the machine is much quieter with it than the 300 watt one.

On a funnier side, the machine is very quiet, it won't work most of the time.

[prop135]

Hi pallum

yep since updating the drivers and putting in the new PSU I have not seen a BSOD at all.

I hope you do get a fast turn around, Novatech are pretty good and always have been.

I have never had a cpu failure but I had a lappy that looped on boot and that was the hdd, wierd huh.

my dining room is like a server room with clanky old machines doing varius stuff and the nforcer is the quietest by far. The noisiest machine I have is the one with the 650watt q-tec in it, sounds like a helicopter trying to launch lol. Unfortunately thats the one thats on the most as its my VM testbed.


good luck

[pallum]

prop 135

I'm glad yours is up and running OK. Mine was collected on Friday as arranged so all I can do is wait. Looking at other posts on Novatech Forums where computers were returned the turnaround seemed very quick so I have my fingers crossed.

Will let you know of the outcome.

[simonf7]

Any more news on these power supply issues?

Looking to get two of these for my development team and really don't want something thats going to be unreliable when pushed.

Si

[Gibson097]

Called tech support yesterday, described the problem with my Nforcer 4200 and they have despatched 450w power supply at no cost. **** good customer service as always from Novatech. Pity it had to be done in the first place but Im a big fan of NT and they havnt let me down. Thanks to the guys on the support desk please.

[novanick]

Correct me if i am wrong.

You need a better power supply,if you have a high-end graphics card?

Nicolas,

[Taxation]

This annoys me, 600W power supplies arent always better than 420W quality power supplies
A quality 420W would be sufficient

[pallum]

My machine has been gone 2 weeks now but I have been assured it will be with me tomorrow (Saturday). I'm not sure if this counts as good service or not as the computer is now 3 weeks old and has been in my posession only 6 days. Novatech reckon my computer had a faulty memory chip, we will see tomorrow when it arrives. Will let you all know.

[Gibson097]

OK 450W PSU arrived in good time. Fitted connecters replicating the original fit with the 300W big smiles........:( nope same problem. Constant rebooting. I have applied the AMD patches as suggested very very dissapointing. Will be on the blower tommorow and returning the PC for a replacement or refund.


SO have you guys worked out what the problem is yet ?? and surely it should of been worked out before you marketed the **** thing.

Im running windows XP Pro and eventually (after 3 boots ) managed to get SP2 installed. latest drivers for the 7600GT from Nvidia. Heres me all excited about getting home and launching into the bright Blue virtual yonder and now Im grounded !!!!!

Come on Novatech, Im still faithfull but this is not a good situation

[Taxation]

What are the temps like.
Are you using raid.

[pallum]

Hello Gibson097
Your problems sounds exactly like mine. They reckon it's memory issues on my Nforcer 4200 but I'm not convinced. They say they have replaced the memory and it's all now OK. As I said before, when it arrives tomorrow (fingers crossed) if it works, then great, but if it dosen't then I will not let then look at it again, I too will be demanding my money back. Will let you know tomorrow (if it turns up)

[Taxation]

There are quite a few memory problems with nf4 motherboards.
If the wrong memory is used then there could be hard locks, random reboots, etc

[pallum]

Well it didn't turn up on Saturday, but to be fair that was UPS not doing their job. Monday it arrived with......yes you guessed it with the same fault, well nearly. Now it does not keep rebooting (Novatech replaced the memory) but I still have the no signal to monitor half way through boot up.
I must of been having a blonde moment because even though the screen went blank each time I was now convinced the computer was in fact now booting up. Didn't think about it before but I have my monitor connected on the DVi input, tried the VGA and hooray it works perfectly. Tried the monitor and lead on 2 other computers on DVi and that worked OK as well but on this machine no joy. Graphic card is obviously the problem. I am now running on VGA output only and it works a dream, I can finally use my machine. Novatech are sending me a new Graphics card tomorrow, (Wednesday). If I do not report back take it from me that this sorry saga is now over. Is it just me or did I get the Friday afternoon one.
Pallum

[novanick]

i remember with this Dell Dimension 4700c (a small desktop) the power suppiles were put in backwards.

You could plug it in but the fan you could not see :o

So i changed the power supply on my mates machine,BOOM the motherboard fried!!!

[GN]

Well it didn't turn up on Saturday, but to be fair that was UPS not doing their job. Monday it arrived with......yes you guessed it with the same fault, well nearly. Now it does not keep rebooting (Novatech replaced the memory) but I still have the no signal to monitor half way through boot up.
I must of been having a blonde moment because even though the screen went blank each time I was now convinced the computer was in fact now booting up. Didn't think about it before but I have my monitor connected on the DVi input, tried the VGA and hooray it works perfectly. Tried the monitor and lead on 2 other computers on DVi and that worked OK as well but on this machine no joy. Graphic card is obviously the problem. I am now running on VGA output only and it works a dream, I can finally use my machine. Novatech are sending me a new Graphics card tomorrow, (Wednesday). If I do not report back take it from me that this sorry saga is now over. Is it just me or did I get the Friday afternoon one.
Pallum

OK, dude. Tell me your exact spec of your machine. Everything you can possibley tell me. I have to deal with these types of issues every day.

I know as a fact that Novatech "Should be/Is" testing all there products with Pc-Check V6.00 and now thay should be useing V6.05. Now if they are useing it, may I just ask coops how long are you running the tests for??

[GN]

Well it didn't turn up on Saturday, but to be fair that was UPS not doing their job. Monday it arrived with......

There a pain in the BUTT, they do this with us as well. It really anoyes me. Also they still havent picked up our falty Wireless NIC Card the dum people.